by YOGACHANDRAN RAHAVAN
After years of displacement during the prolonged Sri Lankan civil war, Yogachandran Rahavan and his family were placed in a refugee camp. In 2009 they were formally recognised as refugees by the UNHCR and Australian immigration authorities.
ASIO has since branded Yogachandran and his wife Sumathy as threats to national security and as a result they cannot be resettled in Australia. One year ago, the family were transferred to Villawood detention centre, where Sumathy gave birth.
Yogachandran and Sumathy are concerned about the future of their children (aged 7, 4 and 1) who only know what life is like behind the wire.
Yogachandran writes:
My family’s situation has been a worst-case scenario for 2 years now.
When your son is born in a detention centre and has celebrated every birthday in detention since.
When your daughter asks you why you are locked up and treated like a criminal if you aren’t one.
When your day-to-day life is restricted in every humiliating way imaginable.
And with all of this, you are not given a single reason why and you are not told when the ordeal will end.
There are currently 51 detainees in legal limbo in detention around Australia. Yet it is clear that the government had not given much thought of how to handle our situation, and it has not occurred to them to talk to us about it.
So I will start the discussion now and these words are for the Australian Government.
A drawing by one of Yogachandran Rahavan's children, Atputha
I was a farmer once but I lost everything.
I wanted to come to Australia because I was sure Australians would help my family. Australians would understand that we have to survive and we have to feel safe, and this is where we could do it.
I am left not even able to explain to my children why we remained locked up.
Other children get their mother and father to take them to school, my eight year old daughter gets me along with a different Serco guard each day, a frightful experience for any human being, let alone a young child. She has asked that the guards stay in the car while my wife and I walk her the extra few meters to the school gate but this request has been refused.
What crimes have we committed for us to be locked up, she asks me. But I don’t have any answers to her questions.
As parents we are constantly worried for our children’s mental stability. But as the already frustrating system of restrictions keeps tightening around us, we cannot help but feel severely shaken ourselves.
We are encouraged to take part in activities at certain times to ‘earn’ points. But I am not a sheep; I do not need a shepherd.
Sometimes it is hard to remember that I am a 35 year old man with a family.
And the sum of these frustrating indignities is what really breaks you in the end.
Indefinite detention cannot be a civilised way to approach humanity.
It is not for liberty to be locked up with no end in sight.
A drawing done by Yogachandran Rahavan's children
The ASIO law fails to provide us with the proper avenue to access the law, rendering us in a permanent state of legal limbo. We believe it is well within our rights as dignified humans to demand changes in the form of a review system, without costing anyone.In this country there is equality and a system of law applied equally to all Australians.
Australians have always been very generous and this is evident in the lawyers who are doing everything they can for us. It is not hard for me to imagine life as an Australian. I don’t and can’t hate Australia. After all, we are proud our kids are now permanent residents and will one day be living a prosperous, dignified and secure life here.
Yes, we are in that worst-case scenario.
But what keeps us going are the greater notions of democracy and liberty, and the thought that one day we will be part of the Australian community, living and raising our kids to be good Australians.
You can sign Get Up’s petition demanding an explanation for ASIO’s decision to detain this family indefinitely with no opportunity for an appeal – go here.
It is also World Refugee Week and Amnesty has a number of suggestions for what you can do to support refugees here.
Comments
114 Comments so far
Had the privilege of meeting Sumathy and her three LOVELY children.Seriously a heart break, hearing their story. Its so cruel, living life with such uncertainty. Where is the humanity!!! Australia you can do better !!!Wish them all the best with their case.
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Dear humanity People!
when we left from the native country, we thought we will be save and will got a good life, but the children still are in the detentions. I have heart lots of NGOs for save the children. where are they?
we couldn’t expect the children locked up in the detention, because of even the Australia have some organisation to save the animals (RSPCA). please save the children and thanks for the people who try to save the children and people.
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Today I am ashamed of being Australian.
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we should all be thankful that we have ASIO and other government departments protecting our borders. Let them do their jobs. Like I’ve said before, they know a lot more about the people arriving here than you do.
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They are an arm of the government for the people – we have a right to discuss their actions or in this case inaction based on the experience of a struggling family.
Yogachandra is isolated and feels he has no recourse – he is asking for answers and we can support his plea. ‘Let’ them do their jobs? that’s so funny – they are lucky to have you in their vulnerable corner.
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There’s nothing funny about border security. You don’t know this man from a bar of soap. ASIO obviously has information about this man that you don’t.
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What I know about Yogachandra:
- He is 35
- He was a farmer and lost everything
- He has 3 children aged 1, 4 and 7
- He lived in a REFUGEE CAMP
- He is formally recognised as a REFUGEE by UNHCR
- He feels his life is restricted and humiliating
- He thought Australians would be symapthetic
- He feels his children are frightened
- He dreams of being free with his family
- He has way more goin on than a bar of soap
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you only know what ‘s been printed.
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Yep.
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Where do u think asio gets its information from? Thin air? Or the repressive regimes, such as Sri Lanka, where people are fleeing?
Even if he was, no child deserves to grow up behind bars and no one deserves indefinite detention without trial and proof of crimes.
Anon, I really worry when people like you give up on liberty and human rights so easily.
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I worry when people like you read about people who have been deemed a security risk to our country but want to release them anyway.
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I worry about people like yogachandran and his family and i wish they were free and I don’t live in fear.
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No-one is saying “release people who are a security risk”. what people are saying is give people a chance to know what the “charges” are against them and give them a chance to explain themselves. I think everyone has a right to a fair hearing.
You might be happy to live in a dictatorship. I am not.
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My mother came to this country legally as a refugee, I have many family friends who came by illegal means so I know I should have compassion but ASIO has reasons to deny people entering the country and having a child does not make a person innocent there is more to the story we aren’t being told.
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Guess what? It is not illegal to seek asylum in another country. People arrive by boat are not arriving ‘illegally’. We are held to a binding UN treaty that allows people to arrive in a nation by any means and then claim asylum.
When you hear Tony Abbott say people are arriving ‘illegally’ he is flat out lying and playing scare politics – he is a Rhodes Scholar, he knows damn well the facts of legally claiming asylum, he choses to ignore them.
Again, it is perfectly legal to arrive by boat and claim asylum. Considering that something like 90% of claims are accepted do you think Australia is welcoming thousands of ‘illegals’ out of the good of its heart? We are accepting refugees through a variety of arrival methods (plane, boat, via a camp) because of our legal obligations.
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Dear Guest, thank you for repeatedly making this point because I have given up. It’s so frustrating to continually hear the lies and misinformation spread (unfortunately) by both the major political parties in this country and perpetuated by much of mainstream media.
Thanks also to Mamamia for giving the vulnerable a voice here on this site.
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no one is saying it’s illegal to seek asylum in another country.
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“Noone” … except for the shock jocks, the Murdoch press, and our politicians who prefer to repeat lies that are easy and appeal to scared people.
“A lie has enough time to go around the world ten times before the truth has got out of bed in the morning”
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The point is that they are not being told why they are considered a threat. They have no idea why they have been classified this way and have no opportunity to defend this negative assessment.
They are being detained indefinitely with no hope of putting their case to anyone.
Surely a fair hearing before being punished is a basic human right?
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The issue here is that there is no judicial avenue for the family to seek to review the case.
Under our current system, they have no right to be told why ASIO believes they are a threat to Australia, so that they can in turn defend themselves, as any other Australian can on any charge facing them.
Let ASIO do their job sure, but the system is broken – this family deserve to know why they are a threat and have the opportunity to appeal whatever case is brought to remove them from the country. They currently do not have that right.
This is someone’s experience – someone’s words from their own mouth, simply sharing, just like Zoe does with her ‘how to’ articles. Seriously people, have some respect, there is no need for Mamamia to provide any evidence – they are sharing someone’s story.
Mamamia, it would be awesome (as others have suggested) to do a peice with even just dot points on what the law currently is in situations like this – there is FAR too much misconception about what is “illegal” etc. Just a stating of the facts. =) Maybe invite Michael Kirby
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Splendid.
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In my opinion, these people need the opportunity to answer ASIO’s charges. A lot of people have posted that we need to let ASIO do their job, and that there is probably a good reason why they didn’t pass their security check. Whilst that is all very true, there needs to be some avenue for the evidence to be examined in a court of law, otherwise there is too much opportunity for a travesty of justice.
We (the public) don’t have enough information to know whether this couple is a genuine threat or not.
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Can we afford this family the same respect we were asked to with Lara Bingle. They might be reading these comments and generalizations about how they could better handle this awful situation are cruel. ‘annoyed’ you don’t know what they’ve experienced and I’m betting they didn’t really want to relocate but they were victims of war. I’m amazed at how arrogant we are sometimes that we assume people would want to leave their family, culture, home to land here. They are displaced. Yogachandran was a farmer. It doesn’t sound like he willingly walked away from this life.
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Are there any other options for this family such as applying at another country, can they not leave and go somewhere else??
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At any time for the sake of their children, they can accept the decision of the Australian government and be returned, at Australian tax payers expense, to their home country Sri Lanka.
Rather than lament in detention, destroying their childrens’s lives with their abject belligerence, they can return to their country and lead productive lives in re-building Sri Lanka.
Unless of course they violently denounce the validity of the Sri Lankan government on the side of Tamil independence movement….and that brings us back to ASIO’s security threat assessment….
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They are accepted refugees. There is no home for them and they may face persecution in Sri Lanka for a multitude or reasons, many of them unrelated to the possibility of being tamil sympathisers – merely for seeking to leave Sri Lanka in the first place they may be prosecuted.
Being a security threat does not discount their position as refugees. The worst thing about these cases is that there is nowhere for these people to go. No other country will accept someone with an adverse security risk and they may die in their home country. So these people are in effect locked up for life – all with no appeal and no review. I’m sure if they could just go home or settle in another country they would.
This post should come with a cheat sheet.
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Several refugees who have been locked up indefinitely in Australia have applied to other countries – most recently a man applied to Sweden and was accepted almost immediately. I believe it took them less than 2 weeks to process his application and decide he would be granted a humanitarian visa to Sweden.
However, I imagine it would be difficult for a family who has perhaps spent time in detention learning English, their children going to Australian schools etc, to readjust to yet another huge cultural and geographic shift
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Yeah, I would totally go back to a country where there was a real risk I would be killed. And take my children. Totally. I hate it when people are so belligerent that they insist on fighting for their own lives and survival and that of their children. Damn that stubborn life-preserving instinct!
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To be honest I find it irresponsible that Mamamia have even posted this as a newsworthy topic. My question is why are these people not entering our country through legal avenues and secondly there are several organisation including WHO, United Nations, Amnesty etc that would’ve been all over this if it was a straight out entry issue to Australia, but its not. People making statements that the children haven’t done anything etc, well guess what they’re a family so until any decisions are reached they must all stay together. I think its the compassionate bleeding hearts out there that are making it a complete disaster for the future of our national security. Wake up people, life is not that straightforward!
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my thoughts exactly.
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1. These people entered legally. It is legal to claim asylum.
2. Various human rights ARE all over this. GetUp, Amnesty, the UN (who are always on Australia’s back over our treatment of refugees) and various other legal and social organisations.
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and yet he is still in detention. Maybe ASIO got it right this time.
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Are you serious Annoyed? This is a less newsworthy topic than beauty products, The Voice finale and the fact that Portia de Rossi cut off her hair???I enjoy reading articles on mamamia, but find it really depressing that many of the “shallower” (for want of a better word) topics seem to motivate people to share their opinions more than serious ones such as this.
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No i find that the FACTS aren’t being reported by Mamamia correctly. Completely separate issue to the “newsworthiness”.
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Aside from the points already mentioned, how do you expect Mamamia to report the full facts when NO ONE IN THE WORLD is allowed to know the reasons for ASIO’s decision?
Google Mohammad Sagar or Muhammad Faisal for 2 examples of refugees given adverse security assessments, but either allowed into another country (Sweden) or given a second, clear assessment
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Yes, compassion is such an undesirable virtue.
You get frustrated with bleeding hearts? I get frustrated with people who don’t take the time to learn about and understand that seeking asylum is LEGAL. That’s why they have been granted refugee status – they were found to be sincerely seeking asylum.
I applaud Mamamia for posting this article and on the contrary, find it responsible of them for highlighting an important issue and agree with other commenters that it is great to see an article with a bit more substance to break up the celebrity/parenting/body image articles.
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I am actually a very compassionate person but not towards people that threaten the security of our country and hence the lives of my family and friends. They may have entered as “asylum seekers” but given the real facts behind this story and that they have been prevented any further progress, it doesn’t really take Einstein to work it out.
This article is purely another form of media sensationalism, just with a sensitive topic. Clever but not responsible of a media source.
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I feel sad for you. A wacky understanding of compassion and so fearful.
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I feel sad for adults who achieve refugee status but are denied entry for failing a security assessment, but far more heartbreaking is that there are children, young children, who are also victims of the system.
I mean, really…do a 7, 4 and 1 year old pose a threat to our country? Those are pretty young ages to get indoctrinated into an irreversible “let’s hurt Australians!” mindset.
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I wonder if some of these links may of interest to you…
Amnesty campaigning against indefinite detention: http://www.amnesty.org.au/action/action/24781/
UN reports have found over and over that Australia’s policy on asylum seekers is anti-human rights and inadequate, here’s an example: http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=38501&Cr=indigenous&Cr1
I don’t know why the World Health Organisation would have anything to do with refugees and asylum seekers?
Also, no one is asking for anyone to be let into Australia without proper checks. We are asking for this decision to be accountable – somebody needs to be able to review it to ensure there are no miscarriages of justice. Several times just in the last year, someone who has been initially given an adverse ASIO assessment has been let into Australia. Obviously therefore the system is not working.
What frightens me is the idea of a Western country having a security agency capable of making completely unaccountable decisions. THAT is what we should be afraid of. Why should ASIO have those powers? You cannot tell me that is good for Australia, the rule of law, or our standard of living.
I do not want the corruption and problems of some overseas nations. But it is not immigrants or asylum seekers bringing them here, it is our government who are implementing secretive tribunals who make unreviewable decisions and sentencing people to life in prison – and never releasing why. Does that sound like the Australia you want to live in?
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Uh, it says they were granted refugee status by the United Nations?? Duh.
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Im so sorry Yogachandran, please know that there are so many Australians who support you and hope and pray (and sign the petition), so that you and your family may one day (soon) be experiencing all the small daily pleasures that we take for granted.
My 10yr old son and I are donating our fundraising from the city to surf to a charity for refugees in Australia and at his school they focused a lot during multi-cultural week on the plight of refugees and what it must be like to start again in a new country, possibly never able to even visit your country of origin again. I hope we are raising a generation of Australians who have much more empathy for people in your situation.
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That is really cool katia!
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ASIO are not a bunch of mealie mouth ninnies standing around thinking up ways to punish people. They are on a national security risk list? There will be a reason for that. Let them do their job.
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If that is true, then why are they so adverse to allowing some kind of review for the decision?
A recent senate report said, basically ‘we know national security is paramount, but you cannot tell me there is not one person in the entire country who is capable of reviewing this decision’
We have a court heirarchy and judicial review for a reason. No-one gets it right all the time – not the Govt, not Govt bodies, not the courts, and certainly not Asio!
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Yes, this man/his family are in detention. No, they are certainly NOT behind razor wire, let alone any wire. How disingenuous. Yes, the children go to school; yes, they are housed in residential immigration detention; yes, they are treated with respect and dignity by all the DIAC, Serco, medical and support staff attending to them. Yes, it is a difficult and challenging case, but why the Mamamia lie about living behind razor wire?
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We hear lots of stories in mainstream media about riots and extreme detainee situations.
This is one family’s experience of being detained and I want to ackowledge it. Regardless of the amenities, location or fencing realities they feel trapped. They are not free and probably feel ignored by ordinary Australians. It would be a fraught environment and of course there would be rules for staff to abide by with regard to treatment of detainees. Just like I want to whine when I feel awful so should these families and we should hear it.
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Also yogachandran please pass on that your children’s drawings are beautiful.
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Can the kids go to the park and hang out on weekends? Can they go to the icecream shop when they’ve been good? I don’t think so. Mine can and I hate the thought of another kid not having the same way of life. It’s very sad.
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It was only recently Serco guards stopped referring to detainees by numbers only (gee remind you of anything?). Drugging of detainees to keep them compliant is common. Sexual assault is common (of all gender combinations). Do some Googling on conditions and then argue life in detention is ok. What dignity??
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sexual assault is common you say. Who’s doing the sexual assaulting? Are you saying the Serco guards are sexually assaulting people!
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Typically sexual assault is detainee on detainee, of varying gender combinations. My point was to the person writing as if detention is not that bad of an environment. Regardless of who is responsible detainees are in an environment where too many suffer sexual assault.
As for the guards I don’t know of any guard-detainee sexual assaults but the guards have been reprimanded for bashing detainees. Secondly, the Commonwealth Ombudsman found that Serco failed to keep accurate records of sexual assaults and failed in their approach to reducing sexual assault.
Conditions in centres have improved, but that is just an improvement from ‘inhumane’ to ‘passably tolerable but still suicide inducing’. A quick google search will tell you exactly what is going on your backyard in our supposed human rights friendly democratic first world country.
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so what should we do with all the sexual assaulters? Let them into the community first?
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We are supposed to provide a safe environment for detainees. No one is saying let assaulters into the community, they are saying the detention centres are not run in a safe and humane manner. Human rights means people have the right to safe and dignified detention environment, which is currently lacking.
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The reference to security/supervision staff calling detainees by numbers is a phurphy. Names are always used, and where there are two “John Browns”, then yes, to ensure the correct “John Brown” is transferred to the medical centre or wherever, an identifier is used. Not unlike your being asked to show your driver’s license, in fact. Drugging of detainees is absolute fiction. Doctors, psychologists and other medical professionals on site prescribe medication, if required. And where reports of sexual assaults have been lodged (in rare instances), police investigations have been undertaken. It is certainly not common. This sort of uninformed post is decidedly unhelpful.
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Actually it is factually accurate. My post said ‘it was only recently that Serco stopped referring to detainees by numbers’ this is true.
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/government-takes-baton-to-old-serco-detention-manual-20120314-1v3ap.html
http://cpd.org.au/2012/03/serco-a-case-study-in-outsourcing-community-service-delivery/
http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/49835
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/upset-over-leonora-boy-detainees-treatment-20120130-1qpef.html
There are dozens more. And not all left-wing, WA Today is pretty mainstream. Why are people so ignorant as to what goes in our centres. Serco have a shocking record.
My post was very helpful and factual.
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It may have in recent years been made official policy but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/49835
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/government-takes-baton-to-old-serco-detention-manual-20120314-1v3ap.html
There are plenty more links from a variety of sources, not just left organisations, should you chose to look for them.
As for the sexual assaults the Commonwealth Ombudsman found Serco did not adequately report and handle the sexual assaults correctly. Is the ombudsman report wrong?
As for the drugging, again the faith in the medical community is on par with the faith in the police who never arrest the wrong person, or ASIO who never make a mistake.
I couldn’t get the drugging links to work, simple google ‘drugged refugees australia’ and you will find high profile stories in a range of publications from human rights organisations through to the decidely conservative The Australian.
These are all facts. Druggings, referred to by number, sexual assaults covered up. Backed up by a wide range of organisations and media across the political spectrum. Your incorrect post is what is unhelpful as it contributes to the ignorance people have as to what is happening in their own country.
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My comment had links in it which went to spam.
My post is factual correct. I have studied this area. If you google these topics you will find a range of factual information from a broad range of sources including departmental investigations (such as the Commonwealth Ombudsman finding Serco failed to adquately handle and report sexual assaults – was the obmudsman wrong?), NGO’s, the media and more. And from a broad range of political perspectives, including the conservative Australian newspaper reporting on drugged refugees.
My post was factual correct and is helpful. Yours is incorrect and contributes to people ignorance as to what is going on in their own backyard.
I am not even that much of a bleeding heart lefty, I just want fairness and oversight. The conditions in the detention centres are simply a matter of well documented facts.
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Are you officially representing the immigration department in this discussion? Of course you are going to spout the official line. Investigations find otherwise to what you claim.
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DIACNatComms, evidence presented to several inquiries demonstrates the lies which your department continues to publish.
“Not official policy” for DIAC perhaps, but since you outsource almost all of the management of these concentration camps to Serco, you attempt to wash your hands of the problems that comes with hiring a third party which got the job based on their bargain basement price.
Serco is renowned ALL OVER THE WORLD for the horrific way its staff are allowed (and encouraged, in some cases) to treat inmates.
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I don’t know about the razor wire. In the opening to this article it states that the family are in Villawood. All images I’ve seen of Villawood show some type of wire fencing around the detention centre. But wire or no wire they are being detained without the opportunity to have their case heard. No matter how well cared for these people are in prison.
I’m a primary school teacher and over the years have worked with many children who have spent time in detention centres. These kids are often extremely traumatised by their experiences. A feeling of hopelessness is one of the most difficult things that detainees must try to overcome. Imagine being a child and not having any hope of living in freedom. We should not be tolerating this type of human rights abuse in our First World democracy.
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The head refers to razor wire, in quotes no less, and yet no where — absolutely no where — in the actual story is the claim made. Either the razor wire reference is an unprofessional if not unethical inclination to tab journalism and/or symptomatic of sloppy subbing (or both). The residential housing used by DIAC is not inside the Villawood IDC per se; the houses abutt the centre, but for all intents and purposes, are homes, albeit with supervision by client services officers (Serco). Here’s a link to a photo of the interior of one such residence: http://www.newsroom.immi.gov.au/images/CD0D7BEF-458F-47B8-80A7-40C23BE5440F.html?page=10&
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Thanks for the PR link that makes it so much more appealing. An established farmer is given a room with a really great coral coloured couch and a really cool widescreen TV. I’m sure they are comfortable and feel right at home. Actually the coral coloured couch probably looks like barbed wire to a man who is used to farming his own land.
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Why, if Serco is so sure these detention centres are so wonderful, did I have to sign a confidentiality agreement to so much as walk in the gate of a detention centre?
You cannot even talk about the conditions inside the centre, totally leaving detainees out of the conversation. Why is that?
Anyway – being in detention is a lack of freedom. I have interviewed many psychologists who have worked inside detention centres, and they all agree it is terrible for mental health. My home is beautiful, I have a big backyard – but I do not want to sit in it all day, every day, and potentially indefintely. Otherwise they wouldn’t use ‘house arrest’ as a punishment for some criminals would they?
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ASIO obviously knows more about this man than any of us. Let them do their job.
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It amazes me how trusting Australians are of our security people – the police, ASIO, the army etc. These agencies all have historical records of misdeeds and ineptness and need oversight.
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so who are we supposed to trust? How about we let everyone in without doing any background checks. See how that goes shall we.
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You are supposed to trust in external oversight when it comes to deciding if someone should be locked up indefinitely. You should trust in a right of appeal. Putting blind faith in ASIO is just plain stupid.
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And who said anything about no background checks? What is argued for is oversight of ASIO’s decisions and the right to appeal. Nothing to do with letting people in without background checks or not caring about security.
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I’m sure it’s not just one person at ASIO that has deemed this man a security risk. I’m sure other government agency’s have reviewed his case as well.
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That is the whole point. At present they don’t have external independent oversight and that is what everyone is up in arms about. Perhaps some research before commenting with such firm opinions.
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We pretty much did after World War 2, and my Dad and many other old Italian, Greek, Yugoslav men of his generation haven’t bombed the place to smithereens yet. All they have done is pay a shitload of taxes as they have built up successful professional lives here.
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Please cite cases, examples or evidence of this grand ‘ineptness’
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You mean like the 10 month detention of Cornelia Rau?
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Do you think government agencies don’t make mistakes? Why would anyone be against oversight when someone’s life is at stake.
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Just google ‘ASIO inept’ ‘ASIO mistake’ ‘ASIO wrong’ etc. Pleeeeeeenty of reputable links about their screw ups over the years. Not saying the organisation as a whole is inept, just that like any large government agency mistakes get made and oversight is needed.
This is the same theme that comes up in posts such as the arrest of Baden-Clay (not judging his guilt or innocence, just a comment on the theme of ‘well the police would know’ that came up a lot on that post), that the police, ASIO, military however must be right. It is nice Australian’s have such faith, but these people are just humans and mistakes do get made.
Just like ASIO have never put the wrong security warning on someone the police seem to have never arrested the wrong person.
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How about you start with the case of Bilal Daye whose house was incorrectly raided in 2001?
ASIO is made up of humans and humans make mistakes. I am more than happy for ASIO to do their job but I think it is unjust that they can detain people without giving them a reason or a chance to defend themselves against an accusation.
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Still waiting for any evidence to be posted here.. . and I am not talking about vague Google searches either… like Google is some form of hard truth…please!
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the detention of Cornelia Rau was all over the news when it happened. not sure what evidence can be given when it’s already in the public sphere
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@TwoDogs I find it interesting that you consider it unwarranted and unreasonable to expect our government agencies to offer evidence, or right of appeal, even in circumstances where they are locking up individuals (and in this case, effectively a family) for indefinite periods. But when we say that these agencies, (who cannot be infallible because nothing run by humans can be) make mistakes, your immediate reaction is to ask for evidence and proof?
Well there is proof that they make mistakes, and I have made the (3 mins worth of) effort to provide you with the court transcript of just one of those instances. The 2007 case where ASIO officers were found to have acted improperly; when the Supreme Court deemed they had falsely detained and kidnapped Izhar ul-Haque. You can find the transcript here: http://tiny.cc/rdg5fw In this instance the mistake made by ASIO officers meant that this case was dismissed, a case against a man who may have had legitimate terrorist connections. But the point remains the same: error and injustice can happen within any organisation, therefore transparency and accountability must be mandatory.
So how about some evidence, or even just an opportunity for Yogachandran Rahavan and his family to answer the [unknown] charges against him?
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You can find information regarding the erroneous investigation of Dilal Baye on page 40 of the Considering the Creation of a Domestic Intelligence Agency in the United States: Lessons from Around the World, by Brian A. Jackson – Brian holds a Ph.D. in bioinorganic chemistry, California Institute of Technology; M.A. in science, technology, and public policy, The George Washington University; B.S. in chemistry, Haverford College and is a professor at RAND graduate school.
Good enough?
Mohammad Sagar was a refugee given an adverse security assessment while Nauru was open and was facing life in detention when he successfully applied for asylum in Sweden and has since lived happily there. Safe for Sweden but not us?
Case ref: Parkin v O’Sullivan [2006] FCA 1413 (3 November 2006) – Parkin was a deported US citizen who appealed with Sagar
Reported in The Age: http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/loneliest-refugee-finds-a-home/2006/12/03/1165080818722.html
Muhammad Faisal was also given an adverse security assessment whilst on Nauru, but after being declared extremely mentally unwell and transported to WA for treatment he was given a second assessment and found not to be a security risk.
More info:
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2007/s1838079.htm
http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/standing-on-common-ground/2007/01/31/1169919400173.html?page=4
And perhaps the most disturbing of all, was the case of Izhar ul-Haque where the courts found ASIO responsible for extreme misconduct relating to an innocent man.
Here is a summary from Crikey: http://www.crikey.com.au/2007/11/13/the-disturbing-case-of-izhar-ul-haque-your-laws-at-work/
And the 67 page Senate report: http://www.igis.gov.au/inquiries/docs/ul_haque_asio_2003.pdf
Are those sources good enough for you, haha
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You can find information regarding the erroneous investigation of Dilal Baye on page 40 of the Considering the Creation of a Domestic Intelligence Agency in the United States: Lessons from Around the World, by Brian A. Jackson – Brian holds a Ph.D. in bioinorganic chemistry, California Institute of Technology; M.A. in science, technology, and public policy, The George Washington University; B.S. in chemistry, Haverford College and is a professor at RAND graduate school.
Good enough?
Mohammad Sagar was a refugee given an adverse security assessment while Nauru was open and was facing life in detention when he successfully applied for asylum in Sweden and has since lived happily there. Safe for Sweden but not us?
Case ref: Parkin v O’Sullivan [2006] FCA 1413 (3 November 2006) – Parkin was a deported US citizen who appealed with Sagar
Reported in The Age: http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/loneliest-refugee-finds-a-home/2006/12/03/1165080818722.html
Muhammad Faisal was also given an adverse security assessment whilst on Nauru, but after being declared extremely mentally unwell and transported to WA for treatment he was given a second assessment and found not to be a security risk.
More info:
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2007/s1838079.htm
http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/standing-on-common-ground/2007/01/31/1169919400173.html?page=4
And perhaps the most disturbing of all, was the case of Izhar ul-Haque where the courts found ASIO responsible for extreme misconduct relating to an innocent man.
Here is a summary from Crikey: http://www.crikey.com.au/2007/11/13/the-disturbing-case-of-izhar-ul-haque-your-laws-at-work/
And the 67 page Senate report: http://www.igis.gov.au/inquiries/docs/ul_haque_asio_2003.pdf
Are those sources good enough for you, haha
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Yeah, cause government and legal people don’t make mistakes. Just ask Lindy Chamberlain. And while we’re at it, let’s think about the possibiltiy that his 7/8 year old is reading this forum to see what sort of responses Dad gets. What do you want her to read?
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I was singing our national anthem at my kids assembly this morning and there is a little known second verse, that includes the words:
“for those that come across the seas, we’ve boundless plains to share. With courage let us all combine to advance Australia fair”
We take so few refugees on the whole scheme of things, it’s embarrassing to hear that we are treating recognized refugees and fellow human beings like this.
If asio believe they are a threat they should have to prove it in a court of law, surely.
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A very powerful point, beautifully put. This really brings it all home for me. Thank you for sharing.
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How do you know that Yogachandran isn’t a threat to national security? Obviously ASIO had intelligence about this situation and have acted accordingly.
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His children aged 7, 4 and 1 are not a threat to national security, irrespective of whether their father is. For small children to be kept behind bars for any reason is disgusting.
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Father or mother or both are a security risk. It is disgusting to keep children behind bars. That’s why for sake of the children, the parents need to accept the umpire’s decsion. My disgust is directed at the parents and those who subvert natural justice.
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What is the natural justice? Sorry, I don’t understand. Is it that they should go back to where they came from?
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OK fine, let’s hear from ASIO what the risk is. Let this man and his wife answer any accusations. If they are then deemed to be a risk then deport them. This country is supposed to be a democracy. It is a First World country that has a responsibility to uphold human rights and protect the vulnerable. These people are being denied the right to a fair hearing.
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ASIO says they are threats to national security.
That’s a very, very serious outcome from their investigations.
I accept their assessment at face value as I am no position to refute their findings and on the balance of probabilities I don’t know why they would contrive a case against these individuals.
Does Mama Mia know something we don’t?
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It isn’t about if they are a threat or not, it is about the ability to appeal and to have access to what informed the decision.
Right now many people have no idea why they were deemed a threat, they have no appeal rights and no future as no other country will take them. Australia has in essence locked people up for life with no explanation given to them.
Intelligence organisations make mistakes, lots of them. That an agency can declare someone essentially locked up for life without means of appeal or review is wrong.
Even for those who are a genuine threat we do need to come up with a better solution that life in a detention centre forever.
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Accept assessments at face value when there are small children being kept in detention for 2 years? I think that’s a cop out.
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It’s not the best for 2 children to be kept in detention, but they chose to have one of them while in detention, probably in the hope of invoking sympathy.
We must have a definite set of rules before we allow anyone into the country. Sure, ASIO has found them to be a threat, and there are legal actions they can now take, but until then, the entire family should be kept together. Would you rather see the family separated?
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Are you saying that ASIO are lying? Are you saying that they are fabricating a case against these individuals? If so for what reasons?
Maybe the persons concerned need to accept the umpire’s decision. The people in ASIO and related government departments, on the whole, are hard working Australians. I thank them for their hard work and diligence in removing security threats and those who conspire to bring old grudges and divisive beliefs to a new country.
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Human beings make these decisions and human beings make mistakes. They are not special because they are ASIO. They should be subject to oversight. I don’t think anyone is fabricating cases, more than mistakes get made and incompetence is not unheard of in intelligence organisations. Or any government agency.
A closed independent court overseeing appeals and reviews is not an unreasonable request, especially when we are talking about detaining someone for what at the moment is life.
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TwoDogs, if you found yourself in this same situation, would you ‘accept the umpire’s decision’ (as you so glibly put it) and be prepared to quietly submit, without a chance at proving your innocence, and live indefinitely in detention?
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B,
No…not for second. For the sake of the children I would accept deportation back to Sri Lanka and help re-build the country……unless I had done some real bad things back there and karma awaits. In thast case I would manipulate, obfuscate and ameliorate my way into a generous, albeit soft touch, nation. Heck… I might even post some drawings from my kids if I thought it would help.
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But they fled Sri Lanka as refugees, and have all been granted refugee status, which means Australia legally has to protect them from returning to Sri Lanka and facing potential persecution. So as far as my research shows, deportation isn’t an option. This is the whole issue – they are stuck in limbo, unable to return, unable to be free here, and unable to appeal the decision. And even if they could, I’m not so sure any parent would be keen to take their children back to a country they fled – surely that wouldn’t be in their best interests.
There may or may not be a very good reason their permanent residency has been denied, and I agree ASIO have an important job to do in protecting our borders and I’m sure seek to do that to the best of their ability. However, indefinite detention without right of appeal and without knowing what you’ve been accused of (which is the case here), isn’t the kind of human rights I think Australia should be seeking to uphold, particularly when it comes to children.
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The family was originally accepted as refugee’s by both the UNHCR and the Aus govt- they obviously were found to be facing some form of persecution back in Sri Lanka- if you were in their position would you REALLY put your family in the position where they would likely be harmed so you could “rebuild” a country?
I don’t think so…
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They come from Sri Lanka, which has had a civil war for decades. A LOT of people are technically implicated as being a security issue after living in a conflict like that. Maybe a cousin or a great uncle was coerced into joining the Tamil Tigers with the threat of death if he did not. So there we have a relative who is part of a terrorist organization. Nothing to do with this family, and certainly not the fault of these children.
It would be like if Australia was invaded tomorrow and our current government declared illegitimate by our new overlords. Anyone associated with the ‘previous regime’ is a criminal and can be incarcerated FOREVER. This includes working for the regime. So imagine that tomorrow all teachers, nurses, hospital-based doctors, customs officers, immigration officers, pencil-pushers in all departments, etc, are all jailed without any chance of appeal for ‘aiding’ the government which is now seen to be wrong. Is that fair? No. Is that what happens to the unfortunates caught up in political conflicts? Yes. Just because ASIO, with their very narrow, first-world framework deems someone a security threat does not mean they are a terrorist. It could mean they pose the same threat as a kitten.
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The fact that there is no way for you or anybody else to dispute the finding *let alone the evidence used against them* is what makes ASIO’s involvement in asylum processing a human rights disgrace.
If you were subjected to an adverse assessment, but were prevented from knowing the allegations or evidence brought against you (and where you were NOT allowed to have representation), would you be so keen to just let the agency have its way?
Really? You would?
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Hi Yogachandran. I’m so sorry. It is an embarrassment to Australia and please beleive that there are people on your side. It’s a disgrace that you and your children are behind bars. I have signed the petition and will send email to the Minister. I wish there was more I could do.
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My First World Problem? That this incredibly important post has been on the site for close to two hours and has garnered only four responses.
Yogachandran, I truly hope your children have the opportunities of Australia gifted to them very soon. I have no doubt they will grab them with both hands and make the most of them.
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Hey Shaezy, don’t confuse comments with how many people might read or share this post. We can all help by spreading the word…
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Agree- most people probably clicked on the Get Up link and went straight off to sign the petition- I know I did.
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I understand Mia, I just wish people had greater emotional responses to articles such as these instead of (or just as much as) others.
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Agree, agree, agree!
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I blog and it is my shallow posts that get more hits than my serious. ‘Shoe porn: pictures of hot heels’ got many likes and views, ‘Afghanistan: Australia’s Tragedy’ is yet to gain a single ‘like’ or many reads.
There was a good article about this on The Age today that basically said we don’t want to read quality anymore, we want upskirt pictures of Lindsay Lohan. Makes me sad. I like to see Portia de Rossi’s hair too, but why can’t we look at both hair and serious?
Kudos to MM for continuing to persist with topics like this despite low comments.
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How about an image of the Children’s drawing and a new tagline like – ‘my children draw flowers and dream of freedom’ instead of the wire fence. I like you want more women to read this!
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Really awful to read of families in detention. I am at a loss at what to say but that I’m really sorry this is your experience. I don’t know how we became so afraid and so blind that we would allow it to happen on our soil.
This is a post we should get behind!
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Government whinges about things being expensive and costing money. Costs thousands upon thousands upon thousands to lock people up and keep them in detention everyday, indefinitely. If released, this man could go to a job, earn a living and pay taxes. More to the point, he has committed no crime. He was deemed to be a refugee by UNHCR. Australia is a signatory to the UN Convention on Refugees. That should be the beginning and the end of the story. He has the right to protection, not more persecution. To say nothing of the children. What terrible crimes against humanity could the seven year old have committed? What could the baby born in detention have done? If the children have permanent residency, they have the right to remain in Australia forever. What problems will they have as a result of their incarceration that society will ultimately have to pay for? If I grew up behind razor wire I think I would have gone batshit crazy. How embarassing for our nation that we are treating a family like this. It’s not like we’re ‘bursting at the seams’ as some alarmists claim either – Australia takes a proportionally tiny number of the world’ s refugees. Overflowing India takes a bucketload more.
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This is one thing I do not understand about ASIO. “They” have decided that Yogachandran and his family are a threat to our country, but “they” are not required to say why?
To me, that is on par with me being arrested in the main street of my small town, with my kids in tow, and then being placed in the small cell in our town’s police station AND NO-ONE BEING OBLIGED TO TELL ME WHY. Then to be left there for two years. With my children. And still no explanation why.
Can anyone explain why ASIO have this power? To withhold information from detainees, from the general public, as to why families like that of Yogachandran are being detained at all.
I wonder if Julian Assange has any spare time on his hands to start hacking his way in….
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I can understand in theory why they have this power, but in reality there should be avenues where people can appeal.
The theory behind it, is (from what I can see) that if the information they have is from a classified source, or from intelligence information, they risk outing their sources by telling people where they got their info. An example would be that you might have been best buddies with someone who is now a known terrorist. That link might only be known by one or two people. But by admitting that they know, you are probably going to want to know who dobbed you in.
The bottom line is that sources for intel are probably hard to come by, and protecting those sources would be a high priority.
In saying all of the above, there does need to be a process for families and individuals caught on the wrong side of these laws.
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