By MIA FREEDMAN
It’s astonishing – and utterly terrifying – to think we could be seeing a return to outbreaks of incurable diseases such as whooping cough, polio and measles.
But with the shocking news this week that the number of parents registering ‘conscientious objection’ and refusing to vaccinate their children has sky-rocketed.
According to reports:
LEADING scientists say the anti-immunisation lobby is endangering children’s lives because of the soaring number of parents refusing to vaccinate.
The number of Australian babies not fully immunised is now one in 12 and parents registering a conscientious objection has leapt from 4271 in 1999 to more than 30,000.
The figures have prompted 12 top researchers to launch a campaign this week to debunk the claims of groups that claim vaccinations are dangerous.
Professor Ian Frazer, who developed the cervical cancer vaccine, said he feared immunisation levels for some diseases were falling below those required to prevent deadly outbreaks.
And eminent biologist Sir Gustav Nossal has accused the anti-vaccination lobby of preventing the eradication of measles through its false claim that the vaccine against the disease caused autism.
A 20-page booklet to be launched today explains that many more children will die from diseases such as measles, mumps and diphtheria than will be harmed by the side effects of immunisation.
The booklet, launched by the Academy of Science, will also explain why it is better to gain immunity from a vaccination than from the disease.
Let’s be very clear. Those who refuse to immunise their children are not just risking their own children’s health but the lives of others in the community. Vaccinations are not perfect – occasionally, those who have been immunised can still contract the disease – but they are the best we’ve got to protect us against incurable diseases.
We all rely on the immunity of others to protect us, particularly those who are too young to be immunised and anyone with an illness that suppresses their immune system (such as cancer). They are our most vulnerable and high levels of immunisation in the community (above 95%) are crucial for their welfare.
Professor Nossal said the anti-vaccination lobby was only able to campaign against immunisation because of its success in reducing the outbreak of infectious diseases.Professor Frazer said it was because parents no longer saw cases of measles or mumps that they did not understand measles could kill a child and cause brain damage or that mumps could make a male sterile and that chicken pox could be fatal.
“As infectious diseases become less common, people are less aware of the need to vaccinate their children,” Prof Frazer said.
Mamamia Vaccination Pledge.
We have written about this many many times on Mamamia and we will continue to throw our weight behind science and scientists like Professor Ian Frazer and Professor Gustav Nossal to help discredit the wildly irresponsible and immoral anti-vaccination propaganda actively spread by the Australian Vaccination Network (AVN).
Because on the one hand there is science and there is no other hand. Our lives and the lives of our children depend on it.
So next time some without any medical qualifications urges to you ‘do your research’, you can tell them this: it’s already been done by hundreds and thousands of scientists far more qualified than someone with access to Google.
Are you as frustrated as we are and what to do something about it?
If you agree that vaccinations are of paramount importance and if you refuse to buy into the misinformation and scare campaigns spread by the AVN and other anti-vaccination groups, if you have vaccinated your kids or intend to vaccinate any kids you have in the future, if you support scientists over unqualified, unscientific scare-mongering, if you believe we all deserve the right to live in a society free from serious illnesses that can kill the most vulnerable among us, please sign our pledge.
We aim to have 5000 Mamamia readers signing the pledge by the end of this week. Please help us make that happen. You can sign the pledge below and share this post with your networks by clicking on the Twitter and Facebook links below or the SHARE button at the top of the page.
528 Comments so far
Comments on this post will close at 10.45am Thursday 29 November. Thank you to all the Mamamia readers who have signed the pledge (please note that you still can!) We will keep you updated on our progress as we pursue this issue with the Federal Government.
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I’m a first time mother of a beautiful 12 week old baby boy and the vaccination ‘issue’ came up in so many forums I sought for help with my millions of questions. I feel that I am a fairly intelligent person and there was never any question in my mind that my son would be completely immunised. Contrary to many people’s assertions on here that we are not informed about the possible side effects and consequences of vaccines, all of my medical staff were open and helpful in informing me of the possibilities and what to look out for.
It’s not even just my son’s health that concerns me with people no immunising their children, what about my grandmothers? As they get older their immune systems aren’t as strong and yet it doesn’t seem fair that some people will put them at risk even just by going shopping near their unvaccinated child.
No parent likes seeing their child in pain, and needles aren’t fun, but do any of us remember the trauma and feel disdain towards our parents? My son forgot about his needles by the time we left the doctors surgery. And as for the booster vaccines, I jumped at the chance at the offer of getting them before leaving hospital. I was also at a loss that the mother beside me, who had not been vaccineated due to growing up over seas, refused the offer maintaing that if she hadn’t got it by 25 she won’t get it now. How anyone can justify picking and chosing what medical advice to accept and ignore is beyond me. My question to all of the objectors is when your child is hospitalised from either one of these preventable diseases, or another, are you going to ignore the professional and educated advice of the doctors then?
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My daughter is fully vaccinated but due to some selfish people who choose to abstain from vaccinations she got whooping cough!! Thank god she is a tough cookie. No one slept for 3 mths and it affected her immune system as she still v easily gets colds etc but she is healthy and safe. Come on guys we have the technology and know how to eliminate these diseases. Please don’t put your head in the sand or your children at risk … Or mine!!
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It is a known fact that the whooping cough vaccination does not eliminate the virus completely. It just minimises the effects of it.
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Presuming medicare/ACIR data is reasonably accurate, immunisation rates in Australian children have done nothing but improve over the last 10 years. I’m entirely against the damaging propaganda spread by organisations such as the AVN, and continue to be saddened that nothing can legally be done to hold them accountable for the damage they inflict on children. That said, articles such as this really misrepresent the data. Its difficult to criticise the AVN for the misinformation they spread when one is doing the same. If childhood unvaccinated rates were up 500% then immuisation rates would be around 50-60%. As said already ‘consciensious objection’ rates have increased which is probably entirely related to government policy and nothing to do with the AVN.
There will always be nutballs and conspiracy theorists in society. Unfortunately along the way some naive people get caught up in the band wagon and unlucky kids sometimes get hurt.
And if you want a poster child for immunisation …. has anyone mentioned smallpox?
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I haven’t read all the comments posted thus far, but have read many of them, and yours, Colin, plus the various comments made by Amandarose stand out as being by far the most informed.
The statistics quoted are indeed very misleading. People fill in conscientious objector forms for any number of reasons – not just because they are completely anti-vaccination and card-carrying members of the AVN (my understanding is that the AVN has around 5,000 members – so what of the other 25,000 ‘conscientious objectors’? If your child has not had every vaccine on the current schedule at exactly the times recommended, then your Medicare records are marked ‘not up to date’ and you may find you have no option but to fill in a conscientious objector form in order to a) apply for the Immunisation Allowance; b) ensure that you continue to receive your Family Tax benefits (there were new rules introduced earlier this year that mean that if you don’t either immunise your children on schedule or provide Medicare with a conscientious objector form, then you lose part of your Family Tax benefit; or c) apply to a childcare centre or school (who also require either an immunisation certificate or a conscientious objector form for enrolment purposes).
I know many parents who are pro-vaccination, but who have not had their children immunised exactly according to the current schedule as either a) they have not been made aware of new vaccines that have been added to the schedule in recent times; or b) they have chosen to follow either a delayed or selective vaccine schedule – for example, I know one mother whose children are fully vaccinated now, but who didn’t begin vaccinating them until they were three months old, and others whose children have had every vaccine on the schedule with the exception of one or two (my own children have had most of the vaccines on the schedule, but I chose to delay the first Hep B vaccine, as I wasn’t comfortable giving my children a vaccine immediately after birth, and declined the rotavirus vaccine as well – a decision which was strongly supported by three different GPs. As such, my children’s records are also considered incomplete and not up to date, so I have had to sign a conscientious objector form in order to satisfy school enrolment requirements, despite the fact that I am largely pro vaccination.
I must say that I am a bit confused about the purpose of the Mamamia vaccination pledge. I know that Mamamia has taken a strong stance on this issue in the past, but I usually feel that the majority of articles on this topic (with the exception of the last article on polio written by Peter Bowditch, which I thought was excellent) do nothing but further alienate those who might have concerns about vaccinating their children, and also provide mountains of free publicity to the AVN, who I feel are usually given far too much credit for the number of unvaccinated children in the community.
I think a far more useful pledge would be one whereby adults promised to ensure that their own vaccinations are up to date. Only 11% of Australian adults are currently vaccinated against whooping cough, so I think a pledge to have your booster shot would be far more worthwhile and something that might actually make a difference to the rate of whooping cough cases in the community. But it’s probably not as headline-grabbing and alarmist as claiming that there is a 500% increase in unvaccinated kids!
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Your one of the few people who actually see through the spin . Great comment
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I am 100% pro vaccination, despite my husband and his German family (living in Germany) being very much against it. My daughter is up to date on all her vaccines and I always question those who don’t vaccinate.
That said I want to take this opportunity to say how much Mia talking on the subject on the Mamamia radio program yesterday made me angry. It came across so smug and some info was blatantly lacking e.g. About the hep b at birth, which you can choose to have at birth or at 6 weeks, Mia clearly didn’t understand this and was saying “everything on the schedule is compulsory” when a listener called to say she chose not to give her child the shot at birth. Another comment made was “There is science and there is nothing” which is just so wrong on so many levels, least of all being that there is still so much that scientists themselves don’t know and things we will look back on and wish we knew. Have faith in science, yes, but be sceptical, be discerning and don’t preach to me unless you have a degree on the subject.
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Actually the birth dose of hep b is part of the schedule. You get one at birth, or as close to because it’s efficacy is greatest in the first 7 days of life and then further doses at 2 months/6 weeks, 4 months and 6 months.
It is not offered as an option.
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What do doctors and scientists know? They are obviously all part of the conspiracy to traumatize us caring, responsible mums by sticking nasty needles into our little angels and making them cry.
I don’t vaccinate and I don’t care if other kids get sick and die. it’s my prerogative to do what I want. Other people and their kids aren’t my problem. Nothing is my problem except what affects me.
That’s why I don’t vaccinate. I am smart enough to know that what I read on the Internet by people who haven’t been to university is more reliable than stuff written by experienced researchers and published in peer reviewed scientific journals.
You pro-vax people have no idea and should leave us alone and let us do what we want, because thats our RIGHT.
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Hopefully you are being sarcastic/taking the mickey
otherwise i’d be a bit worried
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Wow. It’s ignorant posts like this that stop the conversation. This is not clever and not even remotely the way that most conscientious objectors think. I don’t believe for one minute that you are an anti vaxer. It might be tongue in cheek but it is pathetic and immature. Ridiculing people and misrepresenting them is not going to change their minds or make them think twice. They will just look at you and roll their eyes.
If you want to talk to people and want them to see your side of the conversation, start by listening. Automatically assuming that they are ignorant, uneducated and selfish is a sure fire way to get people defensive and defensive people don’t listen.
This does not need to get nasty. Nastiness achieves absolutely nothing. If you really care about this issue, start caring about the people involved in this issue and start showing them some respect. You don’t have to agree with people to show them respect.
“People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.” You never know, if you listen to what other people have to say, you might learn something.
I vaccinate my children but the nastiness and bullying here is just revolting.
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This comment is so obviously inflammatory and designed to get everyone who vaccinates upset, that such stupidity does not deserve a proper response!
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This must be a joke. No mother with children would act like they don’t care if other children get sick and die.
This is a fake, attention grabbing scheme.
I hope no one takes it seriously and get’s offended.
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My 5 yr old son who is immunized, is currently recieving treatment for a rare auto immune disease (JDM) which has no known cause or CURE. he is having chemo treatments and is immune supressed and will be for years to come. I am terrified by the amount of children who are not immunized and there for putting MY already sick son at risk! he will not be able to fight off these infectious diseases! but deserves an education, and the right to attend school! Its rediculous that people are ruled by fear! educate yourselves! and once you are dealing with a life threatening incurable disease like we are you will then understand real fear!
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i taught biology for about 15 years, any time we discussed vaccinations it was about how they worked, what happened in the immune system, the stats of what happens to those not vaccinated and so on
of all the students who admited to not being vaccinated, all of them went to the doctor themselves after this course. i never once told them they had to, science wins over hype.
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I just took my one year old for his vaccinations today. He definately was not a fan !!! I am sure no mother likes doing it and I certainly read about the risks of immunizing before I did it. I have a PhD (not in immunology) and the thing that really bugs me is that the anti-vaccers get most of their information via the web. Google is not the same as peer reviewed literature people! In many cases to get hold of the actual journal article (i.e. the real science) one must either email the corresponding author or pay an access fee to read the article. A website can “cite the literature” but in many cases scientific findings can be misinterpreted. It boggles my mind that people can trust information on the web more than their own, qualified GP!!
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My GP told me not to feed my baby when I had mastitis because the milk would be infected.
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Surely you realise that there are better places to go to your GP for breast feeding advice (antibiotics and medical treatment yes). If the mastitis progressed to an abscess, then pus would be mixed in with the milk, but otherwise not.
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No actually. My first thought was to go to the doctor. I didn’t feel like I wanted breast feeding advice. I wanted to know why I felt sick and my breast was rock hard and sore. Point is, you can’t always trust the advice from the GP. I had another one tell me antidepressants don’t cause weight gain.
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My anti-depressants didn’t cause weight gain.
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Antidepressants don’t necessarily cause weight gain. Some people lose weight on them so that one right.
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I know I end up sounding like a broken record, but if you had’ve gone to maternal and child health in the beginning you would have known what it was straight away and what to do about it.
As your point demonstrates doctors, in fact any professional (including naturopaths, chiropractors etc) aren’t infallible. Immunisation isn’t perfect, but tbh, it’s far, far better than the alternative.
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I think the point Anon was making was that qualified GPs can also give incorrect information.
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Exactly. After all, wasn’t Andrew Wakefield a qualified and previously well-respected surgeon and medical researcher? Kind of blows the ‘you can trust all doctors and scientists without question’ argument out of the water…
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Nobody said that you should, but that you should be wary of individual claims, especially by scientists that are later shown to have a clear conflict of interest such as Wakefield had. One scientist making an extraordinary claim is different from several different scientists making the same claim.
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Hi Anon, the info your GP gave you is incorrect. You can breastfeed through mastitis, the milk is fine, in fact it is recommended that you do continue to feed, as this helps to clear the blocked ducts. The milk is not infected, it is the ducts in the breast that are infected probably from a blockage.
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It’s up to the parents if they choose to immunise or not. Nobody should be forced to vaccinate their children. Australia is not a nanny state. If you were confident that vaccines worked you shouldn’t be worried about unvaccinated children putting your children at risk. It’s as simple as that. Until a Doctor can guarantee that my child will not get sick, injured or suffer long term from being immunised, I will not be immunising my child. And strictly because if this article and the fear mongering it is creating I will no longer be subscribing to or reading this blog. Parents should not be forced into making decisions that they don’t feel comfortable with and haven’t researched to the best of their abilities and understanding. We should be supporting one another not forcing our point of view and parenting choices on others. I have never and will never judge people who immunise their children so I shouldn’t be made to feel judged for conscientiously refusing immunisations.
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“Until a Doctor can guarantee that my child will not get sick, injured or suffer long term from being immunised”
Until a doctor can guarantee that my child will not die or suffer brain damage or other lifelong disability from suffering from pertussis, tetanus, measles, mumps, rubella, HiB, Hep B, Meningicoccal, diptheria then my child will be fully vaccinated.
There fixed that for you.
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Wow- the mandatory baby seats in cars must do your head in.
How dare some Government make you protect your baby when you are driving around perfectly.
I would demand that you get the Government to change this law so that people can drive around with their kids any way they want to but you won’t be back at this blog to read my comment.
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I wish you were forced to immunise your children. For their good and ours.
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What about driving/being a passenger in a car? It is far more dangerous and you are far more likely to be in a crash and suffer long term damage than you are with vaccinations- the risk is tiny but yes it’s there.
You are making a bad choice- do you want your child to get sick?
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It is about weighing up the odds. You can find this information in the full prescribing information for any vaccine- ask you Dr or chemist.
I think not vaccinating is a bit like sending your child out on a bike without a helmet. Nothing may happen but what if it does? What if your child does get measles? What if your child does get Hib and then dies?
vaccines improve your odds of survival to a greater extent then they cause trouble. 94% of the country does it and I am not hearing many stories about babies being vaccine injured. I do here about measles making a come back which is more disturbing.
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I don’t mean to be rude, but I don’t really understand what this pledge is meant to achieve. Isn’t just about everyone everyone here (apart from the antivaxxers who flock to these posts) already pro-vaccination and committed to supporting immunisation in their communities? I just don’t get how this is going to affect people who aren’t already on board with the cause.
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Hi Jamie
Thanks for the comment. We’re really excited about the support the pledge is getting because the reality is community conversation DOES make a difference.
The fact the anti-vaccination movement have gained so much ground is because its proponents are getting air time and making their voices heard as influencers. It’s important that those who support vaccination do the same, to ensure we’re dealing in facts and that those less informed are getting the information their need.
On top of that, we are using the support this pledge has received to give us a platform to meet with the Government around the anti-vaccination lobby to discuss next steps. Of course we will keep Mamamia readers and most particularly those who have signed the pledge, informed of how that progresses.
Exciting times
Jamila
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I am neither for nor against immunisations as all my friends will agree, however, I am constantly disappointed in the fact this website has never once mentioned the fact that Australia is lacking in a No-Fault Compensation Scheme.
Given you have a website that can really push a topic I challenge you to get behind this and also set up a pledge for this as you have for vaccinations.
I will now quote Dr Heath Kelly, Head of Epidemiology Unit, Victorian Infectious Diseases Reference Laboratory as you can at least give him some credibility. “Should a child who may have been injured by a vaccine, which was endorsed and paid for by the community when a serious adverse event may be attributed to the vaccine?
By 2010, 19 countries around the world had implemented no-fault AEFI compensation, implicitly answering “yes” to the question of whether the community owes a duty of care to an individual injured by a vaccine. Germany has had one for over 50 years.
There is also a strong ethical argument for this position based on the concept of redistributive justice. Any person who is injured while helping to protect the community – for instance, by contributing to the herd immunity, such that there are sufficiently many people immunised to prevent widespread disease transmission within the community – should not bear the consequences of the injury alone. In essence, the community owes a debt of gratitude to that person”.
So I ask of you, please set up another pledge to get our government to set up a No-Fault Compensation Scheme to look after those that are suffering for the benefit of the community. And that this scheme based on the ethical principle of redistributive justice, should form a cornerstone of Australia’s immunisation strategy.
My daughter was one of the unlucky few who did suffer following immunization – I am asking you to thank her for her sacrifice by getting behind this pledge. You could really make a difference by getting behind this pledge and pushing this effort through your site.
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Hi Edwina
Thanks for your comment here and your time on the phone earlier. We appreciate you getting in touch and I’m so sorry to hear about what has happened to your daughter. I take your point about compensation schemes and am happy to have a look into the issue.
Jamila
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Hi Edwina, I posted my son’s story above. Thank you for posting this. There are two sides to this story, and both are rational and need to be explored further. Thank you.
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If you are potentially effecting the health of another human being should there be a choice to vaccinate? No.
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smokers have a choice and they effect other’s health?
This is an emotive and judgemental issues because we are dealing with children and mothers, mothers roles and expectations etc.
Funny we haven’t mentioned dad in this argument?
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Stupidity isn’t gender specific. I don’t think there’s been any particular mention of mothers over fathers, has there?
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My Mother contracted polio in 1947 when she was 12 years old. She was paralysed and in hospital for a year and afterwards had to learn to walk again. She went on to have a very happy and full life, raising three kids and having a wonderful marriage, but the effects of polio did impact most aspects of her life. I never saw her run, she couldn’t play or be active with us kids like other Mothers could. It was just something we factored into our life at home, that our Mother was not as strong due to the impact that polio had on her body. By age 50 she was unable to walk up long flights of stairs, and by age 60 she needed a walking cane when she was out and about. When she was diagnosed with bowel and liver cancer 4 years ago, she did her best to fight it, but the effects of polio (called post-polio syndrome) meant that her body. was not strong enough to fight the disease.
I dont understand those people who are against vaccinating at all costs. When you see someone you love suffer the after affects of what are now preventable diseases – it’d a no-brainer. Vaccinating should be compulsory.
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Sarah E, my heart goes out to you. This is very similar to my mother’s story. She’s 65 now and really struggling to walk as post polio syndrome kicks in with a vengeance
That’s bad enough but I hadn’t considered that PPS would make it much harder for her to fight serious illness. Sending you much love xx
Like you, I just don’t get how anyone could put their precious child at risk of such insidious diseases as this. The last argument I had with anyone was 6 years ago when my SIL announced she would not be immunising her child. I don’t say anything now but it still upsets me and I know if anything were to happen to my niece because of this decision, I would never be able to speak to my SIL again.
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It’s a shame there’s no vaccination against stupidity and ignorance.
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maybe the people that are against immunisation should watch this heartbreaking but very true/real story…..breaks my heart
http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/stories/8259732/getting-the-point
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Thought you all may enjoy this article, from my local paper.
I haven’t put my name, because I don’t want any backlash.
http://www.news-mail.com.au/news/immunisation-a-must-at-child-care-centre/1638693/#c450514
Our local child care centre has a compulsory immunisation policy.
It’s about time!
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fabulous. I wish more did this, they certainly have the power to refuse to enrol children who are not immunised, they just pretend they don’t…
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My daughter is fully immunised, but…
Does anyone else remember when we were kids, and Polio vaccination came in oral form?? Oh my, kids these days should be happy with the needle jab.
I still remember that awful taste!!
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I just wanted to say that I completely support vaccinations for our children.I also want to say that we should be making adults aware they should be receiving regular boosters as well. I have a friend who lost her newborn son to whooping cough, he was her first and he did not have any close contact with other children/babies but did with adults. As adults we should be ensuring that we practice what we preach.
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It’s for this exact reason I had my whooping cough, diptheria and tenatus booster when my stepsister announced she was pregnant.
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I love the pledge and signed it yesterday
I believe that full vaccination is imperative for a healthy society and that it is one of the major contributors to our increasing life expectancy here in Australia. Adults should also have booster shots – especially for pertussis (whooping cough) as the childhood schedule does not provide lifelong immunity. I really can’t understand why adults aren’t protected against pertussis, as it’s usually in the same needle as tetanus and I have had an injury requiring a tetanus booster every 5 – 10 years or so anyway.
One thing I really don’t like about the discussion here is the blind use of statistics – which started in the article headline (ie “up 500%”). I have also read several comments which have claimed the rate of this or that has gone up since…
Please, please, please don’t quote statistics which:
a) you don’t really understand (eg rate of X has increased. Does this mean the total number has increased or the % has increased or the %change has increased – the difference is really important! “Rate” is very often misused & misunderstood),
b) which don’t explain the context, or
c) aren’t referenced.
Put simply, when you are discussing scientific evidence you should explain yourself properly and always reference the source of your information. If you don’t, people like me might as well be reading a fairy tale because I don’t blindly believe FACTS!! on the internet!
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A judge has recently ruled that a child should be vaccinated against the wishes of her mother. I am pleased the child’s best interests are being put ahead of homeopathic clap trap and internet scare campaigns. Follow the link to read about the case: http://m.smh.com.au/national/health/homeopathy-regime-is-rejected-as-judge-tells-parents-to-immunise-child-20121127-2a5uo.html
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I am and have been fully vaccinated. I have had reactions to many of the vaccines that I have been given. This includes the DTP vaccine of the 80s which was reformulated because it was causing severe reactions in babies. I also had a very bad case of whopping cough as a child. I got the disease, I was vaccinated and I reacted to the vaccine that was supposed to protect me. Do I think that all vaccines are safe all of the time? No. Why, because I have personally suffered from vaccines and it has been properly documented. Do I believe that vaccines have a place? Yes. Should we just go ahead and give them because the doctors say so? No. I will not be vaccinating my child on the standard schedule. Why? Because what if my baby is like me and has issues with vaccines? What if it is worse? At this point, I have been medically advised to avoid boosters and certain vaccines. Why would I just go and give these same things to my baby? That makes no sense. There are many cases when not vaccinating is done for a good reason – not just because google said vaccines are bad.
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There might be many individual cases, but there are only a couple of valid reasons – allergy and previous reactions like yours. Not liking the vibe and distrust are not valid reasons. This is why so many of us are calling for Conscientious Objection to be canned. Medical exemption is a different story. Even if COs manage to find a doctor stupid enough to write them an exemption, I think we’re pretty safe in the knowledge that the vast majority of doctors would tell someone to take a flying leap if they were approached.
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Pretty sure that this issue is so important because it protects people, like you and your baby, via heard immunity.
The fewer people that do not vaccinate because of unfounded concerns they will harm their kids (UNLIKE yours, which sound reasonable), the less able the vaccine is able to protect kids that simply cannot be vaccinated.
If I were you I would not be attacking mamamia’s initiative. I would be supporting it like crazy.
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Hi Guest,
I too have suffered severe reactions from vaccines as both a child and adult (convulsions/hospitalisation etc), have had chicken pox and measles and been vaccinated against them. I also have 3 children. We worked with a doctor on changing the vaccination schedule for the children, so that they were fully vaccinated but we were careful with it. We had them one at a time and they were given by a doctor in a hospital – in case there were issues. I would hate for my child to either suffer (and perhaps die) from a preventable disease or infect another person. It also means that we are able to travel overseas to countries like Asia, which we wouldn’t have done if the kids and I weren’t fully vaccinated. Speak to your GP about changing the schedule or method of immunisation, both for yourself and your child. Although it’s quite time consuming (going to hospital to have 1 of the MMR injections, for 3 children.. for instance), the benefits outweigh the risks of not being immunised.
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The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim, which in this case is the anti-vac crowd who state that vaccines cause serious side effects. Instead, they flip it back onto everyone else and tell us to prove that they don’t, so that they don’t have to provide evidence to support their claims. Which is convenient, because they don’t have any…
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I have already commented but still in a rage over the anti- vaccination comments. Mia, I just wanted to thank you for your efforts on this issue. We need people like you to highlight the importance of it. Secondly, I just wanted to add, I hope that those who are against vaccination are equally suspicious of all medical intervention. This means that if their child required life saving surgery or medicine in an emergency situation, I hope that they would reject these options and pop off to the naturopath for a herbal solution. It’s not fair to be so disrespectful to the medical and scientific community and then depend on them completely when you are in a time of need. It’s just so hypocritical. If you trust them in an emergency, you need to trust their medical opinion in relation to immunisation.
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I just don’t get why schools and child care centres don’t just ban unvaxed kids. Surely the government has looked into this as an effective way to push these idiotic parents over the line? Or, take away their benefits? Sorry, sounds harsh but I don’t want my baby catching something because of someone’s stupid, selfish, google based decision.
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Vaccination status does affect your CCB (I think it’s that one) – I was most shocked to receive letters stating that because jabs weren’t up to date about 6 months ago, that it would be cut for my daughter. Mostly I was shocked because I took her about a week after her birthday to the GP and watched the nurse put all her details into the computer, tell Medicare, and then Medicare sent me a confirmation certificate showing her as up to date. So after getting the nurse to call and let them know again, they sent another confirmation, then another letter appears telling me she wasn’t up to date! I love doing government departments’ work for them.
But yeah, you have to either keep their jabs up to date (our centres require a copy of their up to date jab records too) for the Child Care Benefit to get paid. I assume a CO form suffices too, unfortunately.
I’ve lost respect for one of my daughter’s educators who said “You can understand why people don’t get their kids vaccinated when you see them develop autism”. Ugh. Happily she also told me in 9 years of running the place, there had been only one family who didn’t vaccinate, and there are none at the moment.
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I think people are so selfish and caught up with themselves today that they really couldn’t give a toss about anyone else except their own children, so the concept of actually caring about others in the community and getting vaccinated is beyond them. Secondly it also makes these people feel important and special because they get all this attention for not vaccinating plus they also think they are far better parents than the parents who vaccinate. Wait until these fabulous diseases make a big comeback because mark my words this will happen, they will probably be the ones who turn around and sue doctors for not insisting their kid was immunised.
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Right, sure I feel so “important and special” for getting this kind of vilification. Yes I care about my children, which is why I had a good hard look at the facts and made the decision I believe to be best for my daughter. How exactly does this affect you or your child? If your child is fully vaccinated and vaccination is as wonderful as you believe it to be then your child is safe.
A question for you: are YOU fully vaccinated? Most adults aren’t. Why are you sticking needles into your kids rather than into yourself?
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Where did you do your research. CO?
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Where did you do yours Kris2040? Please reference and quote all relevant research to back up your argument.
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As I mentioned elsewhere in this post: Education is being taught stuff. Intelligence is knowing when to defer to experts.
Also, you know what, anonymous? I’m not the one claiming to have “done my research” and decided to fly in the face of tons of actual research. Why is asking where someone who claims to have researched did their actual research a problem? You make the claim, you back it up. It’s not my job to make your argument for you. Did you not learn that in Year 7?
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Yes I am fully vaccinated and I paid for all the vaccinations that were not on the free list. Thats because my mother suffered from polio, whooping cough and scarlet fever as a child and I grew up with the consequences.
And the fact that you question how it affects my child says it all about the quality of your research. Does ‘herd immunity’ mean anything to you? It should because when all the healthy kids are immunised the disease cant regenerate and kids who cant be immunised (cancer suffers and the like) are safe too.
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you choosing not to vaccinate your child affects us all, because the way vaccinations work is by a concept called “herd immunity”. They work on a population level to prevent the spread of disease – they have benefits for an individual, yes, but the fundamental strength of vaccines comes when EVERYONE is immunised.
Yes, a vaccinated individual can still contract a disease, but because the vaccine has already induced the antibodies needed to fight the disease, their response will be very much lower than if they hadn’t been vaccinated, so they will fight it faster and will be unlikely to pass it on. having numbers of persons within the community who are purposely NOT vaccinated increases the risk that these diseases will spread and infect members of the community who are not ABLE to be vaccinated or who have compromised or developing immune systems, such as babies, elderly people, people who have chronic or ongoing illnesses.
i hope this goes some way to helping you understand that your decision affects much more than just your child.
and yes, you’re right in that many adults need to have their immunisations updated. this is just as serious a public health issue, but this is often due to people not being AWARE they need to be updating, rather than consciously making the decision NOT to.
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What a load of bull, and i suppose we should all dye our hair blonde and get bottox because australia would be a prettier place we all have the right to choose our own path that includes immunisation! we live in a free country or so i thought.
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Wow the hyperbole. I ‘stick a needle’ into my child every single day of her life. As a parent it is the most heartbreaking thing I do for her. No doubt it is also full of ‘toxins’ and preservatives too. Do I get a free pass because without it she will get sick and suffer life-limitting damage? Would a conscientious objector to vaccination be able to cope if, heaven forbid, their child actually suffer from an illness like Type 1 diabetes, or leukemia or one of the many rare diseases out there? Or does that only happen to vaccinated kids?
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You would of course be thrilled to know that Meryl is branching out into type 1 diabetes treatment advice, too, then, Bec. Seriously.
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Well if she didn’t cause me enough anger already. Unbelievable.
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Actually that does make me wonder if anti-vaccination ideology is just dressed up needle phobia? What would she care about type 1 diabetes for except insulin is delivered via a needle.
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That’s terrifying. What next?
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Answer: yes I am vaccinated as are my husband and grown children.
When I worked in health care I had to “stick needles” in myself to have up to date immunisation. Such an eloquent and intellectual way to describe injections! My children are adults by the way and unlike you I actually care about the community and society I live rather than some insular approach to the world that only cares about my family. I would hate to pass on whooping cough to some poor innocent baby who ends up ventilated in ICU. Obviously you have never seen a ventilated baby and I guess by your actions you don’t care either otherwise YOU would vaccinate.
PS I wasn’t aware in my comment that I mentioned vaccination as some “wonderful” experience LOL
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CO, vaccination works but not.for.those.too.young.to.have.had.it. For example, newborns.
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No you actually don’t care enough … if you did you would realise you are putting your daughter’s life at risk by being a selfish person who has made a decision based on rumourmongers and fallacies.
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Vaccines do not work on some people who receive them. For example, my sister got the MMR vaccine on schedule as a child, and the boosters; however, we have since learned she is able to still get mumps. If most people receive the vaccine, there is less of a chance that she will ever be in contact with these diseases.
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Oh, and also…many infants do not receive all of their shots until minimum one year old. So if your kid gets sick with these horrible illnesses, he/she has a chance of infecting vulnerable infants.
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I am fully vaccinated and my kids are too. The concern you are missing is that kids too young to be vaccinated are at risk because of your unvaccinated kids. Your decision affects other people’s kids.
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I’m fully vaccinated. This year alone I’ve had three vaccinations. I’m a nurse and have done this to protect both myself and my patients. How would you feel if you went to a hospital and caught something off a nurse or a Dr? Well that’s exactly how I feel about my children catching something off yours. Vaccination is a community health issue, not an individual decision.
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It does affect my children and me as their mother, because, even though they are vaccinated, due to some who arent, they contracted whooping cough. Luckily because they were vaccinated it was a mild dose, however we had to keep them at home in isolation for the 5 day period and I had to take a week off work to care for them.
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If you feel strongly against vaccination that’s is your right, but will you be at the children’s hospital asking them to save your child’s life using today’s science, when the complications from chicken pox lets say can be meningitis ? Just asking
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If a child is diagnosed with a terminal illness, the parents dont have a choice regarding their childs treatment. The treatment plan is in the hands of their medical team and off they go.
Why cant vaccination be the same? Its not optional.
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Immunisation has been so successful that people do not know how devastating these diseases are. It has allowed uneducated people to become complacent & make bad decisions regarding their children. There are no cure for these diseases, once caught they are fatal and can become widespread. Wake up people!!!
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I am upset that many parents are choosing not to vaccinate their children. Not only are their children at risk of contracting a serious illness, but they are putting infants at risk as well. I am well aware that some people are afraid of the toxins that vaccines contain. It is unfortunate that vaccines are singled out in this way – toxins are part of our daily lives. Do you eat fish (mercury)? Do you eat anything but free range and organic food (antibiotics and hormones)? Do you live in a city (air pollution, water pollution)? Do you walk by smokers or smoke yourselves (known carcinogens)? Do you drive a car (exhaust fumes)? Do you fly or own a microwave (radiation)? All of these activities – and so many more – carry PROVEN risks.
My nearly one year old son has an egg allergy. One of the vaccines that he is scheduled to get soon has trace amounts of egg in it. Although it is unlikely that he will have a reaction from this small amount of egg, there is a risk that he could have a serious allergic reaction to it. I debated whether to get him this set of vaccines because I am afraid he will react to the egg – but after a recent outbreak of measles in my neighborhood, I cannot take the chance to not go ahead with the vaccine. If parents complied with vaccinating their children, I would likely wait to vaccinate my son due to his allergy (many children outgrow egg allergies). But unfortunately this is not the case.
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It is unfair to the child/children of the anti-vaccine parents to go their whole life knowing they are immune to anything, traveling would no doubt be off the list at such a young age. Don’t expect your child to love you when they can’t travel with their friends. It is also unfair for everyone else, why should we suffer just because one silly person decided against vaccinating? I don’t want our world to turn into a horrid place where plagues are spreading rapidly.
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I always wondered the same thing about travel until a friend of mine who is a big anti-vaxxer campaigner had her unvaccinated 7 year old son vaccinated with every vaccine on the schedule because his father (they were separated) was taking him on a trip to India. It kind of debunked her arguments about vaccination in my eyes as she always boasted that her son had never been sick due to his healthy immune system which she attributed to breastfeeding him until he was 3 years old and their healthy chemical/preservative/drug free life style. It was obvious that she didn’t believe their vegan lifestyle was enough to protect her son from dangerous diseases in India. I would love to hear from all the anti-vaxxers scouring this page if they have travelled with their unvaccinated children to developing countries where polio and measles are a reality.
We have travelled a number of times with our small children, both to developing and first world countries and plan to do much more travel as they get older. Each trip we have made with our kids we have travelled with confidence knowing that they would not contract a devastating disease as they are fully vaccinated. In all honesty I wouldn’t even feel comfortable stepping foot in an international airport with my children if they had not been vaccinated, but that is just me.
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Wow! Yes because the boy is going to a country where very few are immunised there are diseases everywhere! Your friend obviously misses the point about herd immunity and her contribution here!
I have a close friend who works in ocology and people who reject conventional medicine and opt for natural methods and diet to manage their cancer really upset her too. Guaranteed, she claims they return to conventional medicine for a miracle cure when its too late and sadly when they likely could have been helped earlier if they took that path then.
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Do doctors tell you the ACTUAL figures relating to death shortly after a baby is given a vaccine?……NO!. Do they tell you that the rate of polio increased after the vaccine that was invented to stop it?…..NO! Do they tell you about the risk of autism being a vaccine induced condition?……NO! Why don’t they??…..They are kept in the dark even more than we are, It’s made to be there job! The drug industry is bigger than we all think…HUGE!! So why not protect it? Why not protect it by shutting down the information that we all should know whether it be a search engine site or someones email account that has viable research invested and passed on!! And ‘they’ say…”do your research”. I say “Ok, How?”
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Do Anti-vaxers provide the stats you mention with ANY credibility? Do anti-vaxers admit that all the “studies” they mention have been thoroughly debunked?
If big PHARMA have such google power, how come the top results when googling are ANTI-vax sites? I think you have your conspiracy theories mixed UP.
Do you all do an online COURSE teaching you to INAPPROPRIATELY use capitals and exclamation and question MARKS?!?112?@!
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Sorry, this is me – name got replaced when I was typing and forgot to fix it!
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In case it matters, Google top search results are all purchased these days nothing to do with relevance of topic. It’s all to do with how much you spend on marketing.
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Says a lot for the AVN etc then, doesn’t it?
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You can look the ACTUAL facts up on MIMS the full prescribing info contains the facts. Not scare mongering web sites. They do show the risks/ benefits.
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Yes but doing proper, fact-based research would blow their conspiracy theories out of the water! Unfortunately this is a typical reaction of the selfish younger generation who believe the world revolves around them and who actually believe they have no responsibility to the community they live in.
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To all those blind supporters who slander those anti-vaxer’s without actually listening to the opposing views, you are simply regurgitating information that was passed onto you by either your doctor or a media outlet. So the question is whether or not the source of YOUR information is accurate. Who can we believe these days??
It wasn’t that long ago that the largest tobacco companies funded and released a study to prove that smoking did not cause lung cancer. Now of course that ended in convictions of fraud, with settlements in the billions of dollars.
These convictions of fraud occur all too frequently with big pharmaceutical companies, with one of the leading vaccine produces, GSK, on that list, with a $3 billion settlement only this year for making false claims on some of their products. There are so many reports and incidences being swept under the carpet, the Red Cross knowingly using people from high risk groups to donate blood, leading to the infection of HIV and Hep C in haemophillia patients, was dealt with ‘on the quiet’. You dont see that on prime time tv.
Now I`m not suggesting that vaccines dont work and there isnt any merit to them. What I am suggesting is that there is also undeniable evidence to suggest that there are side effects to vaccines. Alot of which havn’t been fully researched. Alzhiemers, Autism, ezcema, cancer, female fertility problems, digestive disorders, all of which have been linked to the ingredients that are added to vaccines. (mercury, aluminium, formaldahyde) These diseases are all on the increase. Can we link them to vaccines, and/or our ever increasing toxin filled lifestyles.
The medical industry can not be allowed to dictate how I treat myself and my children based on their one sided view.
Its a difficult topic, that has merit on all sides of the spectrum. I understand peoples fear. The media and world health organisation start a vaccine campaign and suddenly everyone’s on board and is able to recite what they were told to believe and all other claims are quackery, conspiracies,( maybe its due to the mandatory water fluoridation and its effect of making people more compliable.)
There are always people on either side of the fence. If a prescription drug cures and illness, then it worked. If a natural therapy cured an illness, then it was coincidence. Go figure!
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“the Red Cross knowingly using people from high risk groups to donate blood, leading to the infection of HIV and Hep C in haemophillia patients, was dealt with ‘on the quiet’. You dont see that on prime time tv.”
We DID see that on TV. It’s also why when you go to donate blood you have to fill out a huge declaration and they test every donation for a bunch of diseases.
The. Link. Between. Autism. And. Vaccination. Has. Been. Disproved. Comprehensively. Numerous. Times.
The link between getting a vaccine preventable disease and dying is also evident.
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Please reference just ONE research paper where the link between vaccination and autism has been disproved.
The absence of evidence to prove something does not disprove something else.
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Here’s a review to get you started.
http://www.expert-reviews.com/doi/abs/10.1586/14760584.3.1.19
Can you reference one that proves there is a link? Thanks.
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You have called us ‘blind supporters’ and then accused us of slandering anti-vaxxers. Well done.
I actually don’t think like you do. I don’t blindly follow numpties on the internet that make stuff up for ego boosts and giggles. I had to take things further and get several opinions – I had the opinion of a Professor of Immunology, another specialist that previously worked in vaccine research and the vaccine specialist that works for the Children’s Hospital near me.
Individually they all still recommended vaccinating my child in spite of the medical issues and medication she’s on.
So either
a) they are all in the pay of big pharma and recommended it purely because they get paid to say that.
b) they are brainwashed by fluoride
c) their collective years of study and practice with patients means they understand the risks and issues involved in our case and are still able to recommend it considering our circumstances.
Sure, you can choose (b) and/or (c) but I’m going for (c).
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Does this mean that if your child became seriously ill you’d ignore the ‘conspiring’ medical teams working to save them? You all have the same rights to have your conspiricy theories, no matter how misguided. But do you have to put others at risk because them?
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There is an information sheet that GPs and clinics will give you in relation to the risks of the disease VS the risks of the vaccination for it. It quite bluntly outlines these risks, including figures. If you want stats on the rates of vaccine protectable diseases go to the commonwealth department of health and ageing website, the NHMRC website, the ACIR website (the national immunisation body)k or the CDC website or the WHO website. The stats on any of these will show quite starkly that the rates of these illnesses dropped dramatically after the introduction of widespread vaccination.
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Hi Mark, this is a genuine question. You seem to be implying that doctors are complicit in a Big Pharma conspiracy. What do you believe the doctors’ motivation is?
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Where the hell is this idea that there is some HUGE conspiracy with doctors and drug companies? Do you people have any brains? seriously this DOES NOT HAPPEN. How on earth is this “made to be there job” (good spelling btw) You do realise Doctors actually are intelligent, in fact to get into medicine you have to be in the top 1% of students. Then have to study more then most jobs to get to the top of your field. Do you really think that people who are proven to be intelligent and taught to question and research would blindly do what a drug company tell them?? Give me a break, the only people who blindly do this sort of thing are the anti-vaccination mob who will read some crap in google and believe it. That’s why you don’t see paediatricians looking up google for a diagnosis or a medical opinion because they do proper research!
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Yes, Kiks I find it supremely ironic that anti-vaxers tell everyone to QUESTION. Yet scientists are the kids who ask “But why? But Why? But WHY?” all grown up. Questioning is their job and their natural state.
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It seems that anti-vaccination ‘experts’ believe that doctors do their research in the same way that they do – by reading everything that supports their opinion and not much more..
I’m not a doctor but I work in a professional, technical field and it can become one big ego competition as experts argue different points of view and make claims that get analysed and attempt to tear them down.
The anti-vaccination claims only work in a bubble (and a very privileged and anti-science bubble at that).
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I am pro vaccine, but the reason why people doubt pharma companies and doctors is because of the history of doctors taking kickbacks (holidays, computers, etc) to prescribe pharma companies drugs, The story was broken wide open by the Sunday program many years ago on Channel 9. And things like pharma companies suppressing information about side effects of certain drugs. It may not pertain to vaccines, but it’s why people now question motivations of the big corporations.
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Er…and where are all these polio sufferers hiding?
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They probably went to their homeopath and got drops to cure it
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The government hides them an underground lair that is one giant iron lung and then releases them into the community when they recover with special walking aids so that people just think they have a physical disability. Big Pharma and the federal government are in it together for the big bucks.
If you enter an area that seems to have a disprortionate number of people with physical impairments, run. It’s probably Polio infested.
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“Do they tell you that the rate of polio increased after the vaccine that was invented to stop it?…..
No. Because …. IT DIDN’T.
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I think you’ll find that there is no evidence that vaccinations are linked to autism. I feel sorry for the children being put at risk because of selfish, opinionated and misinformed parents.
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I am in 100% suort of babies/children being fully vaccinated. My 3 children are.
However, a very important point that seems to be missed in the article and many comments, is that adults need BOOSTER SHOTS to ensure they are still adequately protected too. Recent state govt programs were offering free whooping cough boosters to parents/grandparents of newborns, but these programs are winding down.
All adults, regardless if they have contact with newborns, need booster shots NOW. A simple blood test can identify your immunity levels for these deadly diseases. I believe this should be a major public health campaign, and all doctors should be discussing this and offering boosters to all their adult patients at every consultation. I had no idea that I needed a booster shot until I began thinking of getting pregnant with my first. Luckily my doctor warned me about whooping cough, and gave me a booster before I fell pregnant.
On another note, I believe pro-vaccine parents of Australia should unite, and demand that vaccination is compulsory for any child entering an educational setting from daycare through to high school.
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I think these parents believe that doctors ‘research’ in the same way they do, by uncritically swallowing whatever is written out there that supports their view. I am in a different profession but I can say that this is just not the case and conferences that I go to can be an ego competition with people forming their own opinions and trying to find the faults in people’s research and papers and presentations.
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But the finding faults in studies and presentations is exactly what you want to happen – it makes those making the claims they are making back them up and justify with credible information.
This is why anti-vaxers claims aren’t worth the paper they’re written on – their claims can’t be replicated or backed up credibly, so they fall apart with very little scrutiny.
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I’m confused, are you saying that at medical conferences, doctors just sit around agreeing with each other and applauding each others research?
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Only after their cheques from Big Pharma have cleared, kiks.
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And right before they sacrifice fluffy bunnies & small children.
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Where are you getting the idea Doctors are paid by drug companies?? first of all it is illegal, look it up up on google the altar where all anti-vacciniation people worship and copy and paste from. Secondly it doesn’t happen unless a doctor is ACTUALLY an EMPLOYEE of said drug company. No doctor I know has ever been paid by a drug company but I guess you won’t get that because people like you think scientists and doctors are all part of some huge money making conspiracy. Just like people think my husband makes more money from doing a caesarean section than a norma delivery, again not true. It’s just another form of tall poppy syndrome and anti-intellectualism that is rampant in our country
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That was my comment above, the anonymous one. I forgot to sign in as I was momentarily distracted counting the big pile of money my husband received from drug companies
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Where do you get the idea that I have anything other than contempt for anti-vaxers and their whack job conspiracy theories, kiks?
thing.
Knew I should have done the
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No I’m saying the opposite.
Anti-vaccination ‘experts’ seem to decide what they want to’believe and then ‘research’ by reading information that fits that belief.
They seem to think that being educated about a topic means reading lots of things that fit into the ideological framework that they have created for themselves. They seem to think that other people must all do their research this way.
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Mia – heard you on radio spouting that “every study in the world, ever done shows that vaccines don’t harm anybody so they should be mandatory”. I’m neither here nor there on vaccines but this is patently not correct – the package insert for any drug lists the side effects, vaccines included. Please don’t insult our intelligence with unbalanced hysteria – your radio gig was non stop spin. You lose credibility when you make such outlandish statements and many people see straight through this. The CDC is aware that the upswing in whooping cough is linked to a number of things including reduced coverage AND vaccine induced mutations in the original bacterium.
Three points to worth noting:
1. “The reemergence of pertussis has been attributed to various factors, including increased awareness, improved diagnostics, decreased vaccination coverage, suboptimal vaccines, waning vaccine-induced immunity, and pathogen adaptation..
2. . “We present evidence that in the Netherlands the dramatic increase in pertussis is temporally associated with the emergence of Bordetella pertussis strains carrying a novel allele for the pertussis toxin promoter, which confers increased pertussis toxin (Ptx) production. Epidemiologic data suggest that these strains are more virulent in humans. We discuss changes in the ecology of B. pertussis that may have driven this adaptation.
3.We and others have shown that antigenic divergence has occurred between vaccine strains and clinical isolates with respect to surface proteins, which confer protective immunity
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Dee,
I’d appreciate it if you didn’t paraphrase me on such an important subject – especially when you do so incorrectly. I made the point that every scientific study has proven conclusively and consistently that vaccines are the most effective way we have of protecting against serious and deadly diseases. Every medical treatment has some potential risks and side effects. And some babies are unable to be vaccinated. Which makes it even more important for the rest of us to be, so they can be protected by herd immunity.
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Stop saying herd immunity! Unless we are having boosters our whole life it does not exist!
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Mia
Ok – sorry for the incorrect paraphrase – I was driving. The point on ‘every scientific study’ is careful use of words. You did not mention risks, side effects or efficacy which created a one sided spin version of reality. People are getting sick and tired of this type of thing which is why they are migrating to non-corporatised media in their droves. They want honest debate and clear, truthful information and they don’t like being patronised and told how and what to think. You were proposing mandatory medical intervention presumably for every man, woman and child. Mandatory means no exceptions. Be prudent when you promote ‘mandatory’ anything. Mandatory vaccines today could be mandatory anything tomorrow. Most people would choose to live in a democracy with a few risks rather than a Big Brother dictatorship – just ask anyone that has. And if you want to get angry about some deaths that didn’t have to happen try Australian stats on iatrogenic deaths covering all age groups as there are around 16,000 of those per year.
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Dee, I really hope you’re not suggesting that people like the AVN and Mercola provide a balanced view of vaccination.
What do you suggest would be next in the mandatory slippery slope?
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Dee, I am sure Mia will excuse your ignorance. If you were driving at the time, I am sure we could all understand.
Perhaps next time you could concentrate on the road, and instead of risking fellow motorist’s lives, write your comment when you return home.
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she didn’t say she was writing, she said she was listening to the radio, when Mia was on. We can understand you made a mistake Sandy.
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Anonymous, Consdering she blamed her incorrect paraphrase on driving, I did reach that conclusion. I suppose it was because she said “Ok – sorry for the incorrect paraphrase – I was driving” Instead of “Ok, I was driving when listening to the radio, sorry I must have heard wrong”
I seriously doubt that is what she meant. Or should I say I doubt that is what you meant.
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nope, I meant what I said. Maybe she should of said, “sorry for the incorrect quote, I was driving”. Then you wouldn’t all be so outraged and confused.
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You were typing a post on MM while you were driving????? I am lost for words at this stupidity. That is so dangerous – it’s unacceptable. Even more unacceptable than not vaccinating.
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Dee, copying a pasting research does not make you an expert on infectious disease it just makes you look stupid that you can’t have a discussion in your own words. There are plenty of things that are mandatory in our society like voting or not texting when driving, what you are advocating has nothing to do with democracy, you are promoting anarchy. Google it when you are not driving
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makes her look stupid? Bit harsh don’t you think? everyone asks for facts and figures, stats etc, don’t they. She’s providing them. stick to the dinner party rules please and mind your manners.
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she said she was LISTENING to MIA on the RADIO, not writing while driving. I’m lost for words too.
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Are you my mother? is this is why you are posting anonymously? I’m sorry I wasn’t aware I wasn’t allowed have an opinion contrary to yours. Unlike you I actually will put a face to my opinion and if Dee was sitting in front of me I would say exactly the same thing to her as I posted here. The problem is I doubt Dee would be able to talk about the research she is referring to without the use of a computer. Copying and pasting from Wikepedia does not make an intelligent argument. That is my point and I will say in online and in real life too!
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Dee didn’t say she was listening to the radio while driving – you have inferred that! Others have inferred that she was typing while driving.
This confusion really shows why it is so important to make your message very clear!
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No I’m not your mother, and my name is Catherine Walker. Does that make any difference whatsoever, what my name is?calling people stupid shows a lack of maturity, and you need to mind your manners.
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If an anti-vaxers child infects a defenceless newborn with whooping cough ,and the newborn passes away is the unvaccinated child or their family guilty of murder? Think about it.
Anti-vaxers need to realise that its not a personal choice they are making for their child; it’s a choice that can affect many who don’t yet have a choice.
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Give up on whooping cough for this example. The vaccine is very ineffective which is the main reason it’s spreading.
Try measles instead- very effective and the one smeared by the autism fable.
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It probably won’t be a child that passes it on, most adults don’t get the booster shot again, because they don’t know they have to, and therefore can be carrying it around for months without knowing it, like I was. I think you need to think about it. How would you even know who passed on the whooping cough.
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Dana McCaffery died from whooping cough passed on from a kid, didn’t she?
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Did she? I never said kids can’t pass it on, but there are so many people out there that have it, spreading it, and they don’t even know it. It would be very hard to prove who gave what to who, wouldn’t it?
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No! According to the expert Mia interviewed for some TV show she once had, Dana McCaffery most likely caught the whooping cough from an unvaccinated adult. Which actually makes sense – very young babies don’t often get as close to other children as they do adults. Ever seen children coo over a new born? Most of them couldn’t give a hoot.
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I was born a long time ago, before many vaccinations were developed. I have had the measles (a very close call that was), mumps (twice!) – these were so very bad that even now, and even though I was very young, I still recall the experiences. I also caught chicken pox as an adult (and that is a truly horrible experience).
My kids and my grandchildren will never know them, and, unlike me, they will never have to live out there lives with the consequences of them.
Few, if any, of the anti-vaccers that I have encountered have physically experienced these diseases, and Sadly the only way they will learn their lesson is by burying their children, or nursing the vegetables that they become.
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I am so tired of the doctor / science bashing that goes on around this issue. I do not want to go back to a world that does not have the wonder that is modern medicine. This is such a FWP it just makes me so angry. My father had polio, and is alive today thanks to the efforts of the scientists and doctors that treated him with the knowledge they had at the time. Yes the science is constantly changing, and we might find out in the future that that something we thought was true in the past isn’t correct now, that’s called continuous improvement. I’m not going to sit on the sidelines and refuse medical assistance because my doctor might not know everything about everything. Yes we should question science and continue to learn, but we have to stop denigrating our doctors and scientists. I wish antivaxers would stop spreading this hate.
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Is there anything more ridiculous then hearing parents say, ‘ well I did some research and I decided against vaccination’? Seriously have some bloody respect for the experts who have been studying and developing vaccines over many years for the benefit of humankind. Oh no, you’re right, I believe the ‘research’ from the soccer mum who did a Google search on vaccination in between some online shopping. When did we all become doctors??! Just because you have a computer, does not make you an expert in everything! Sometimes you should just shut the hell up and do what you are told by an expert! You can make all the other decisions for your child but this one affects everyone else.
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Mia, for the sake of science and the denial comments that are sure to follow, could you post some studies to the stats you’ve mentioned? Not that I’m convinced the more loony fringe anti-vaxxers will believe the studies, but I for one would feel much better if they were shared.
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The stats Mia mentions are about conscientious objection rates rising. This show more people have done this by 500% since 1999. This is because in 1998 the maternity allowance was linked to immunisations. In order to get it you needed a Dr to sign conscientious objection form. Prior to this theirs was no such thing. the rate has risen I response to people wanting the money not because of a reduction in immunisations. I mention lower down the Medicare stats that show an increase from 86% immunisation rate in 1999 to a 94% in 2012.
So the rate of increase in vaccinated children is actually a drop in unvaccinated children by 62% on a 500% increase.
As Mamamia is not a science site they have not grasped the reality that more kids then ever are vaccinated.
I commend advocating immunisation but I condemn the use of false statistics to back it up. I don’t think it was deliberate – but it does create a sense of danger for people that is not based on reality.
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I have listed twice here there are not facts to back up the title to this article. I thought Mamamia support facts and science? Why disallow a comment that shows where the stats for immunisation come from?
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Hey Amandarose, we’ve linked to the source – it’s the article from news.com.au
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It certainly appears that not vaccinating your children has become a first world privilege in this day and age. This has become a very concerning trend if you ask me.
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This article is so one sided. Vaccines do not immunize ,let’s remember that.
I am not apposed to vaccinating ,however i am opposed to vaccines that carry mercury and other toxins and are injected into our children.
Do not be naive ,research and educate and understand what we are putting into ourselves and our children.
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The minute someone uses the term “toxins” in this discussion I discount anything else they say as they are just spouting the old anti vaccination line. Palm, this issue appears one sided in the media because the issue is one sided. There is science and there is bulldust. When the anti vaccination lobby start presenting accurate information, then the issue will have 2 sides. Until then, we can be happy in the knowledge that everything they say has been discounted. I read 6 months ago Meryl Dorey claiming she has had dealings with 700 deaths due to vaccination, this week she revised that to 28. While I dont even believe that, it’s an interesting validation that she does not tell the truth. Now as for your toxins in immunisation, I take it that you are aware that everything is toxic in the right dosage, so I take it that you don’t drink water or breath air as they can both kill in the right quantities. But that’s not right is it, you do drink water and you do breath air, so you clearly have no actually issue with the ‘toxins’ in immunisation and are just using it to validate your incorrect opinion.
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My idea of fun is to read medical journals by the institute of Medicine that are written by scientist and medical doctors who are pioneers in their field. I have just read a commisssioned paper
process of putting together an assessment on the health outcomes of vaccinated versus unvaccinated children. Will you be interested to know the outcome? What facts do you have besides the goverment and big pharma companies telling you that you have to vacinate your children. Do not be negative allow this discussion to bring you knowledge and new findings. A debate about what is best for our children is a positive step to show that we want what is best for our kids. Not everything in this world is toxic only man made substance is toxic.
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Actually, there are a large number of naturally occurring substances that are very toxic – the assertion you just made that only man made things are toxic is ridiculous! And for the record, mercury is not man made & if there is any present in a vaccine – most do not – then the amount is so small it present no risk to toxicity. you have more chance of mercury poisoning from eating fish than from a vaccine.
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I thought that any mercury that was in vaccines was part of a chemical compound that was peed out (unlike elemental mercury which can accumulate in the body). A little bit like Sodium being explosive, but Sodium Chloride is just table salt and perfectly fine in small doses.
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So your not sure if there is mercury in a vaccine however you are willing to advocate for children to be vaccinated ? The correct term is thimersal and the amount of mercury used in some of the vaccines are not safe for children .Again I am not against vaccination however i am opposed to vaccines containing such toxins.My children are vaccinated but at least I know what is being given to them ,do you? Be aware and don’t be dismissive.
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Thiomersal – ethyl mercury- peed out.
Different from methyl mercury – poisonous.
Preservatives are going to be lethal to some cells anyway – that’s the whole point of a preservative – to prevent other things (bacterial cells/yeast cells whatever) from growing in there. She wasn’t asserting what she knew about vaccines or didn’t know about vaccines, but was making a point about how toxic is described.
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I’m one of the rare people in the world that has had a reaction to a vaccine, however there is still no doubt in my mind when you look at the statistics about immunisation; my child is fully vaccinated
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I was born in a 3rd world country. Access to quality health care doesn’t exist. If you get sick, unless you can travel overseas to seek treatment, you die.
Having grown up with that, i can’t help but think that people who don’t vaccinate are crazy. You are so blessed to be able to have that choice.
I’m vaccinated, i received all childhood vaccines. I get my Fluvax every year. I’ve had my pneumovax. I recently had vaccinations against typhoid, rabies and cholera due to travels. I’ve had my Gardasil vaccine too.
I’m happy
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Toowoomba Dad- But Hep B is a known and proven cause of liver cancer. Not hard to catch, and no cure. How do you weigh up those risks in your mind? Your kid just needs to step on a used syringe at the beach and bingo.
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Yes, yes and yes. Or they can get bitten by another child carrying the virus without knowing at daycare. The hep b virus is incredibly hardy.
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If we can develop a vaccine against HIV and Hep C in the near future, i always wonder if in 100 years people will refuse to vaccinate against these?
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THANK YOU for your brave words Mia. It drives me insane that these self righteous parents think they are entitled to endanger the entire community and their own child. They can only be so frivolous because of all the hard work that has eradicated contagious disease.
I feel so sorry for the children of these parents.
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It perhaps takes one to know one – self righteous that is
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Fair point Rebecca. I certainly had a bit of a rant and generalised.
I do believe it is a concerning trend though.
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My brother got whooping cough 2 years ago, even AFTER he’d had the booster shot. If he hadn’t it it would have been so much worse. My dad is also on immunosuppressant medication (has an auto-immune disease) so he can’t have any vaccinations anymore. He got a flu shot last year and actually GOT the flu.
I wonder if ‘anti-vaxxers’ get any shots if they are going somewhere like India? I think you need a dengue fever vaccine or something. I bet if they got it and weren’t vaccinated, insurance certainly wouldn’t cover them!
I really like the idea of daycares and schools not accepting unvaccinated children (unless they have a medical certificate or something exempting them)
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I believe the rise in the number of conscientious objectors has come from the increasing influence of anti-vaxer groups. They prey on vulnerable new parents by scaremongering with lies, misinformation and myths. I’m not sure why the government hasn’t run a vaccine awareness campaign, not only outlining the benefits of vaccinating children, but also informing people that the theory about vaccines causing autism has been thoroughly debunked. I think that educating anti-vaxers is going to be far more persuasive than berating them. A petition for another day, perhaps?
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Perhaps when the drugs companies fund it, as they do so much of the medical research into vaccines, they will!
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I vaccinate my 3 children a close friend of mine chooses not to. She commented when talking about our choices that their family relies on ‘herd immunisation’ to protect their children. Seems the attitude is that they hope everyone else is doing it for their own benefit, good enough for my kids but not hers….my newborn has for obvious reasons not been mixing with her kids! The comments that your child won’t catch it if they are immunised anyway are irrelevant, a newborn is very vulnerable to whooping cough, the schedule not providing them with full coverage until 6 months old! Soon the anti-vaxers will have this attitude tested as more and more refuse to vaccinate the herd will be smaller and the risk of preventable diseases higher. Lets protect our kids x
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I dare anyone to try and force me to put the Hepatits B Vax which contains Formaldehyde (a know carcinogen) in my newborn baby.
There is science, then there is this vaccination thing….
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But Hep B is a known and proven cause of liver cancer. It’s not to hard to contract and has no cure. So you are avoiding a vaccine in the mistaken belief it has carcinogenic properties, but risking a preventable disease that is KNOWN to cause liver cancer?????????? Have you REALLY done your research?????????
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Would you rather your child’s life is threatened by hepatitis b?
That is what has happened to 2 friends of mine who contracted it in India.
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There arehep b vax for newborns that contain no formadeldhye or mercury eg,
Thiomersal-free vaccines, such as H-B-VAX II preservative free paediatric formulation, are now available and are recommended for administration to newborns and infants.
http://www.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/Handbook-hepatitisb
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I hate to tell you, but your babies body already contains formaldehyde. As does yours.
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But Hep B is a known and proven cause of liver cancer. Ironic really.
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Are you TTP.
You do realise the human body produces formaldehyde don’t?
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The vax is not formaldehyde free. I read the info with my own eyes. And yes our body does produce it about 1-2ppm, well below the ??x amount in the vaccine ..no wait, they don’t tell u how much!!!
I wonder what the risk of contracting hep b for my newborn daughter are……lol..ridiculous. even the nurse at the hospital said she wouldn’t give the newborn vac.
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Formaldehyde is a must in vaccines. It’s the most effective preservative of them all, with only about 2microlitres required to effectively preserve about 1litre of fluid. The TGA recommended levels of formaldehyde in vaccines is approx 0.02% w/v. The most the TGA have detected in vaccines is 0.004% w/v. In other words hardly anything. You get more from apples. Really.
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It takes a series of three vaccines to build immunity against Hep B. Yes it’s unlikely your newborn daughter would contract Hep B, but what are the chances of her as a toddler catching it? Remember she will be around other kids, sticking stuff in her mouth, running around. Why would you not want her immune to such a disease before she is at risk.
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Because that is exactly what scientists hoped for when the vaccine was developed – to shoot up newborns with formaldehyde… the amounts are trace for preservation purposes
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See, Amelia knows! PROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!! Those dastardly companies and cruel nurses who just get off on giving needles! The nurse who did our jabs in hospital did abuse me when I didn’t scream from my Boostrix and my poor susceptible newborn only flinched with no distress at all from hers. Take that, Big Pharma!!!
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the sun is a known carcinogen. Do you let your child outside?
many many manybmore children suffer from brain injuries from car accidents than side effects from vaccination…does your child ride in a car?
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Are you also aware of all the other things in your environment that release formaldehyde to which you and your family are exposed? Your kitchen & bath room laminate is inpregnated with it, as is the timber furniture you sit on particularly the pine used so frequently. This leaches out in far greater quantities than would be in a vaccine – if it is present at all – I will do my own check on that as I have serious doubts as to your credibility. Trace amounts in a vaccine that are safe versus my child getting hep b & both the long & short term consequences of this – my choice is vaccination. There is more risk from my child just being in our own home.
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Hypothetical question for all those who don’t vaccinate: if there was a widespread epidemic of a life threatening disease, and you could be almost 100% guaranteed of immunity, would you then vaccinate? At the moment the choice is easy for you because the majority of the population have been vaccinated and therefore prevented an epidemic. But what if the rest of us didn’t vaccinate, just like you. What would you do if your child was then at a very high risk of dying and a prevention was offered? Just curious…
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When I was in school, we were taught that all of the childhood vaccines lasted a lifetime. This thinking existed for over 70 years. It was not until relatively recently that it was discovered that most of these vaccines lost their effectiveness 2 to 10 years after being given. What this means is that at least half the population, that is the baby boomers, have had no vaccine-induced immunity against any of these diseases for which they had been vaccinated very early in life. In essence, at least 50% or more of the population was unprotected for decades.
If we listen to present-day wisdom, we are all at risk of resurgent massive epidemics should the vaccination rate fall below 95%. Yet, we have all lived for at least 30 to 40 years with 50% or less of the population having vaccine protection. That is, herd immunity has not existed in this country for many decades and no resurgent epidemics have occurred. Vaccine-induced herd immunity is a lie used to frighten doctors, public-health officials, other medical personnel, and the public into accepting vaccinations.
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Can you please provide good solid evidence for your assertion that vaccines lose their effectiveness 2-10 years after they’re given?
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So what you are saying here is that because medical science moves forward and adds to the knowledge of vaccine science we should be upset?
By the way when exactly were “we” told that vaccines offer permanent immunisation for every vaccine? I just want to check out your reference.
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That was the theory back then, and if that theory was correct herd immunity would have been a valid concept. It’s not true though, you can quite easily find the info about the length of time vaccine will work, in I’m not gonna do your research for you.
I thought it was common knowledge that most infants contract whooping cough from adults who are no longer immune. Some interesting studies on it if u care to read…
Any who can refute this? Face it, there is no herd! Stop. pushing these ridiculous concepts.
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Are you sure you have a science degree. In science the person that makes the claim has to provide the evidence. You made the claims now pony up!
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Jordan, could you please explain how I tested positive to rubella immunity when I was pregnant given my rubella shot was 23 years previous, and I’ve never actually had rubella?
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Ditto, Kris.
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