Leslie Cannold.
Following the outcome of the US election and the defeat of Mitt Romney, many women are today breathing great and heavy sighs of relief – grateful that their right to choose will remain protected.
But with the social stigma that continues to surround abortion unlikely to abate any time soon, there are still battles to be won.
Leslie Cannold had an abortion. Or maybe she didn’t. What does it matter? Why do you care?
By LESLIE CANNOLD
Look at the women around you – wherever you may be right now.
One in three women will have an abortion in their lifetime. And if you haven’t yet, you can stop looking at each other now.
We actually aren’t born feeling ashamed of anything. We’re not ashamed of our nakedness, we’re not ashamed of our bodily functions, our sexual desires, our reproduction or abortion. We learn, from our communities, what is shameful. And it is the real or perceived oversight of those communities that make us feel shame.
Now shame is about fear, but what are we afraid of?
In ancient times, if a woman brought shame on her name, or her family, or her community she could literally be thrown out of that community. Cast out. She could be stoned. In some places in the world today, that is still the case.
In our world, a woman might be afraid if people find out that she’s had an abortion that her church community will evict her. Or she might be worried that her family, or her boyfriend, or her husband might throw her out of the house. Or that her friends will start a whisper campaign about her.
But the thing is, that those fears all cut to something very, very essential about us; very, very primal. And indeed that is why shame is such an ancient form of social control. Because it actually goes to something that may be hardwired in us. Which is this desire to stay in connection with other human beings. Shame evokes the fear of disconnection.
I had an abortion. Or maybe I didn’t. Why do you care?
Shame does not stop women having abortions. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt women. It does. And it hurts them by silencing them and by causing ignorance. So let’s talk about that.
Silent women can’t ask for support. Two thirds of women fear that if others find out their abortion they will look down on them and so, nearly that number – 58 to 60% – don’t tell their friends and their family about their abortion and talk about their abortion little or not at all.
My baby is pro-choice.
Silent women can’t share information. So if I reach out to someone and say “Oh my God, I’m pregnant when I don’t wanna be, I don’t know what to do” and someone says to me “Oh you know, that’s terrible, like that happened to me too and here’s how I felt and here’s how it went and I went to this clinic and it was terrific or I went to that one and it wasn’t so good but WHATEVER you do if you go to this one, be really careful because across the street, there’s a building that’s dolled up to look like the abortion clinic but it’s actually not an abortion clinic at all. It’s run by a pro-life agency and by the time you even work out where you are, they will have told you a whole bunch of false information about abortion, they may have told you you’re going to hell, and by the time you stumble out of there you’ll have missed your appointment.”
Silent women DON’T ask for the laws they need and deserve. And indeed this was actually how I came into the shame issue because I am an abortion rights activist. And in order to change the laws, to try to get things out of the law that hurt women, to try to put things into the law to protect women, I actually need to raise awareness amongst decision makers and amongst the public that there is a problem.
So if you think about any news item that you’ve ever seen or a newspaper article about some broad social issue, you’ll see that it starts with a story. It starts with a story of a particular person and that’s so that it doesn’t seem so abstract and you can actually see that this broad social issue that’s being spoken about is actually hurting someone and that’s why it is, we need to make the effort to change things.
You’ve got to ask yourself; if shame is so bad for women, then why is it still happening? And who is doing it?
The answer to who’s doing it is the Shame Stokers. And the reason is that shame is a gift that just keeps on giving. Shame equals silence equals ignorance equals shame equals silence equals more ignorance equals more shame and more silence and more ignorance. And that silence and that ignorance is the fertiliser for the ground on which repressive abortion laws and policies flourish.
Choice.
“A legacy of unutterable shame.” That was said by an Australian Health Minister, who said that Australia’s abortion rate was a national tragedy that left a legacy of unutterable shame
“Abortion is a worse moral scandal than priests sexually abusing young people”. This was said by a Catholic Archbishop, again not long ago, to a group of young people. What is being said here is, the moral evil that we need to concern ourselves about is NOT men in positions of authority and trust who rape children and or then cover it up. The REAL moral problem of our time is women who have abortions.
There are a couple of messages that the Shame Stokers are sending us there.
One message is DIRECT to women who’ve had abortions. So what they’re worried about is if they talk about their abortion, they’ll be shamed and judged and cast out. And the Shame Stokers are saying to them “you bet your LIFE you will. You put your head above the parapet Missy and we will kick you in the teeth.”
And the second message the Shame Stokers are sending is to all of us. And it’s really a lesson worth learning. And it is this. That if you don’t tell your own story, other people will tell that story for you. Silence does not stay silent for long.
So. This is an optimistic challenge, right. And I’ve just dragged ya right down into the mud. Do not worry because we are heading up! And the reason we are heading up is because there is absolutely nothing that I have just told you that you can not do something about.
Communities cause shame. And communities can stop it.
Reach out.
Women who’ve had abortions who feel supported experience less shame. And less of shame’s noxious, down stream consequences. So let the women in your world know that you are NOT a Shame Stoker. That if they talk to you about a problem pregnancy or an abortion, you will NOT judge them. You will NOT shame them. But YOU will listen with empathy and compassion, and let them know that they are not alone.
So instead of this negative, downward cycle – of shame equals silence equals ignorance which causes more shame and more silence and more ignorance – you get an upward spiral. You get, empathy equals connection equals empowerment equals empathy equals connection equals empowerment for women.
And so. I had an abortion. Or maybe I didn’t.
But I hope by now you know, that it doesn’t matter either way…because we won’t be silent any more.
Pledge in Support of Women
Let women know they are not alone. Stand up for women and against abortion shaming by signing the Pledge.
Dance in Support of Women.
Already, a “Let’s End the Stigma” flashmob has run in Melbourne. Participants stood up for women and against abortion stigma by dancing to support women. (You can see the video above)
You can also register now for the Sydney flashmob – go here. If you live in Canberra, a flashmob is currently being organised.
To keep up with dates and times and how to register for the Flashmobs, to sign the pledge and to stay on top of the ongoing “Abortion- a Fact of Life” campaign JOIN US at reproductivechoiceaustralia.
org.au .You can also find Reproductive Choice Australia on Facebook and on Twitter.
Comments
229 Comments so far
I had an abortion in the 1960′s in Sydney, where I had to go because the backyard abortionists in Melbourne were dangerous to life. It was a huge secret for a long time, until I decided that there was nothing to be ashamed of quite a few years later. Certainly in the ’60′s this was an unmentionable subject as it was embarrassing to even be on the pill. Thanks for such a rational and sensible article.
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Leslie, I’ve always been a huge fan of your work, and always been amazed at the consistent and irrational attacks that have been thrown your way by individuals insisting that they are actually the pro-choice ones (hah!) and and you are “insulting” women who have had terminations by “celebrating” abortion (I always roll my eyes at the inherent manipulation and lack of intellect there). So when I saw that you had written a piece for Mamamia, the first thing I did was not to read it, but to scroll down to the comments to see if your fans had followed you here…and they had! I chuckled for only a moment, until I had the sobering realisation that such individuals continue to attempt to control women’s bodies. Keep up the good work, I’m behind you and I appreciate your efforts.
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The termination of a pregnancy should never be celebrated, but using exactly the same logic, a woman who has a termination should never be vilified.
To the ladies reading this who have had terminations, I hope you’re ok.
To the people who judge women for having terminations, Fuck you too!
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Love your work, as always Leslie!
On a related note, here is an article I just had to share written by a woman who used to be “pro-life”:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/how-i-lost-faith-in-the-pro-life-movement.html
It really is worth a read!
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I’d be willing to bet that of all the respondents to this article, not even 1% of the women are aware exactly when they are ovulating. This can be accurately calculated and this fact has been known for a very long time. It’s been known for so long because ovulation is irrevocably tied to the moon cycle which never changes. I suggest that women become aware of their bodies first, before arguing about abortion. I might add that I am pro choice here. However I insist that women take responsibility for their bodies before abortion becomes a necessity for one reason or another. Are we all too lazy to keep track of our bodies, or too busy? Please put self-awareness first. It is very easy to know when you’re ovulating but it requires some consistent effort.
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If ovulation is based on and influenced by the moon cycle, why don’t we have every female having their periods at the same time every month?
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Because each female is not born at exactly the same time. Surely that’s obvious. The moon cycle itself relates to the species, not the individual.
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If the moon cycle affects everyone and never changes, surely it stands to reason that everyone is affected at the same time in the same way – because according to you, it is irrevocably tied to it. What on earth does when someone is born have to do with anything? Or are you suggesting that menstrual cycles are linked to star signs?
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Birds have babies in the spring. They are less individuated than humans. They do indeed all have their babies in spring. Humans don do this because their fertility cycle is governed by the moon cycle. As you can surely see, the fertility of birds as a species is governed by the sun (spring equinox) and they breed annually. OMG can you please do your own research. None of this information I have provided is inaccurate. Its all factual. In the human species, the individual has its own relationship to a 28 day cycle. In birds and other species, there is no individual relationship, only a specific one (ie. the relationship to the sun cycle is with the species not the individual). Why don’t you just google the Billings method and find out for yourself about female human ovulation cycles. Finis.
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Hey, you’re the one bringing it up, you do the explaining. It’s not mine or anyone else’s job to make your weird argument for you.
You still haven’t explained the one rather glaring point – if we are tied irrevocably to the moon’s phases, why don’t all women have the same phases of their monthly cycle at the same time?
If everyone is individual, doesn’t that discount any influence the moon has? This makes no sense at all.
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I have friends who are identical twins and they don’t get their periods at the same time, despite being born 4 minutes apart. One actually got them for the first time about 8 months before the other.
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Ali, a lot of people are on contraceptives, which can interfere with their ovulation and natural cycles anyway. If you’re not getting a period regularly due to your contraception, there’s a big part of your “early warning system” gone isn’t it.
Your comment assumes that people don’t use contraceptives and is as short sited as your comment about not having sex unless you’re 100% sure of your contraceptive protection.
Please show some self awareness yourself and maybe do some research on menstrual cycles and the myriad of ways in which they can go awry before you sprout off about moon cycles and the like.
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ok, that is the most laughable thing I’ve heard all year.
I’m actually confused as to whether you are making a joke or actually serious.
And if you are serious, you are showing a large degree of ignorance towards the woman’s fertility cycles to which you claim to understand so easily.
Ovulation is not so easily tracked. Just speak to the vast numbers of women who have irregular cycles, or hormanal issues etc etc etc.
“..tied to the moon..” seriously? Perhaps in pagan times when they had little else to define time and processes. But not now.
For your information, some women ovulate regularly at the exact same time and the expected day of the month…we call a textbook case. Something you perhaps have been blessed with.
Other women ovulate sporadiaclly, or later, or earlier, or not at all, or sometimes they do sometimes they don’t. Some don’t ovulate for years and then out of the blue spit one out. Some ovulate but the ovum is crap so it doesn’t count. Also some bodies behave as if they are ovulating, but don’t. And some bodies behave as if they aren’t ovulating, yet they do.
The moon, that i’ve noticed, certainly doesn’t assist these people.
You have offensively simplifed what can be a very complex and precarious process.
And I take you to task for tarring people (including myself) in these circumstances with being ‘all too lazy’.
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Why is there so much verbal and fierce defense of the woman, and complete silence regarding the baby? The way I see it, a woman who is pregnant is responsible for making all kinds decision for herself and her baby, from the moment of conception on. This is why public health gives pregnant women information about tobacco, drinking, nutrition, etc, and ante-natal care options. It is not a matter of “me, my body, my choice” – it is a matter of “there is a new life growing inside of me, a new person.” This is why some feel guilt and shame when they choose to end the new life. For me, the argument is never about empowering vs shaming women. It is always about the life of the baby.
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I couldn’t agree more! Well said.
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It’s so not about the life of the baby. That baby’s life can kill its mother. So whose life is more important to the mother? Her own, of course. I nearly died twice with my third pregnancy, once giving birth and once again three weeks later. I was hospitalised with three other pregnant women with the same condition as me, which condition was induced by pregnancy. Two of the women died, one giving birth and the other three weeks later. Both babies survived. TThe other woman who survived, along with me, gave birth to a healthy child but was herself left with severe diabetes. I survived only just, but was told I would be dead in five years from kidney failure. I refused all treatment and told them to get stuffed, I was going to live thanks very much. This was 20 years ago. I’m still here and telling you that babies can kill you and they do, but you don’t hear about it very much because they really don’t want you to know how dangerous being pregnant and having a baby really is. I’m here to tell you. Get real. My own experiences have made me pro choice.
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Most medical people would agree that abortions are necessary on medical grounds when the mother’s life is at risk and no one is denying that. What you and those other ladies went through is awful and in those cases the life of the mother is always given priority. But what I am referring to is the cases where abortion is used more as a lifestyle choice then a life & death decision.
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Hummingbird the conditions I refer to are not present prior to pregnancy and only manifest sometimes late in the pregnancy. In my case, at 5 months. Even if the choice to abort is based on lifestyle, that is a valid choice because nobody I repeat nobody ought to be forced to expose themselves to what can be and is (as I personally experienced) a threat to their life. In other words, the mothers life (or lifestyle) is still the most important factor in any legal considerations.
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I agree that the mother’s life is paramount and if a serious medical condition arises at 5 mths, 6mths even 10mths then you need to make a choice whether you choose to abort the fetus or have it delivered prematurely (which by the way, some women do, and even if the baby only lives a few hours – that is what they feel is the right choice for them). That is your choice and only you can make it. I am not saying you can’t choose to abort on medical grounds or if there is a past history of medical complications, genetic abnormalities etc – you can and it is an available option if the mother’s life is in danger or the fetus is unhealthy.
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I saw the recent Melbourne march on tv, the sexparty were there with a banner saying FREE ON DEMAND ABORTION, if u want to end stigma thats def not going to help. Making the tax payer fund your procedure at any stage for any reason is barbaric and the reason ill never support an Emilys List member.
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Women who get abortions pay tax too.
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Why do so many people think that being pro-choice is synonymous with thinking that abortions are awesome? I mean come on, I doubt any woman would honestly WANT to go through that ‘just because abortions are cool’. Grow up and see what pro-choice is actually about – simply that we should be allowed to have the choice of whether to terminate or to continue with a pregnancy. I don’t see why this concept is so hard for people to understand.
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I don’t think people have trouble with choice. This article is about stigma and shame.
I personally think shame only occurs if you do something that goes against your beliefs and you regret it. People judge them selves not others judging them. You can’t change that. So yes have choice but let’s not pretend we can make this a painless process.
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Hi Amandarose, you’re right – I was more making a comment about some of the comments I’ve read from clearly anti-choice people who seem to believe that being pro-choice is equal to saying that abortions are great and everyone should have one (yes, I am exaggerating slightly).
It’s absolutely not a painless process and I am not suggesting that we can make it one – just that we need to be clear about what pro-choice means.
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Leslie Cannold, who authored this article, has also authored a book where she states that those who are advocates of a pro-choice position are really pro-abortion because they only advocate for access to abortion and not any of the other pregnancy options. Interesting to note if Leslie Cannold’s opinion and advocacy is one that anyone should choose to follow.
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Which book, Actually…?
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I believe it’s in her book, The Abortion Myth. Happy to get you a page number and direct quote if that helps?
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It’s cool, I’ll get it from the library at uni.
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Whether you choose to have an abortion or not is none if my business but it is ironic that in our society abortion is ‘killing’ an unborn child yet it is not socially acceptable to call it that. I challenge anybody to prove abortion does not involve killing another life – but if you feel more comfortable with the favoured terminology such as termination, abortion, problem pregnancy, unplanned pregnancy etc. If that helps you sleep better at night – then again that’s your choice. You should not feel shame if you are comfortable with your choice to have an abortion but don’t expect those who aren’t to – that’s truly a double standard.
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First trimester doesn’t qualify as a death medically or logically.
However, the procedure for the late term abortion my wife had was called a feticide. I was well aware that I was killing my son, Fred.
You don’t know anything.
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How can you say that ending the life of a fetus in the first trimester doesn’t qualify as death? By 8 weeks all the organs are formed in the developing baby. At 12 weeks the fetus squirms if your abdomen is prodded, although you cannot yet feel movement. Fetal nerve cells have been multiplying rapidly and synapses (neurological connections in your brain) are forming. The fetus has acquired more reflexes: touching the palms makes the fingers close, touching the soles of the feet makes the toes curl down and touching the eyelids makes the eye muscles clench. So you are telling me that terminating this fetus does not equate with killing it??
I have a medical background so I know full well that there are reasons for termination. There are a multitude of reasons for why medical termination is necessary and there is no other choice but to end the life of the baby and I am not against that as it is a sad but true fact of life. But that is not what the author of this article is referring to. She is talking about the rights for women to choose whether or not THEY want to end the life of their baby. She is referring to women who could otherwise have a successful pregnancy but choose not to. That is what I am against – not termination for medical reasons. So I do know what I am talking about and I am deeply sorry for your loss. I did not in anyway mean to cause offence to people who have had no choice but to terminate on medical grounds.
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From a medical perspective, lots of things are needed to be able to declare something dead. A first trimester embryo has none of the requirements.
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I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. My understanding of death in it’s most basic form is cessation of life – which is what occurs in a termination. But if you think differently that is fine.
I am just putting forward my thoughts for what they are worth. One thing these forums show is that there are a multitude of opinions on any given topic. If there wasn’t we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
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Science states that life begins at conception, so how can you falsely state that a first trimester abortion is not considered causing a death? The act of abortion intentionally ends the life of the unborn, no matter which stages of gestation. We were all the same people when we were conceived as we are today, same DNA, same genes, same people. Medically, it is considered death, without question. It’s where people’s moral compass rests as to how they feel about that is the significant difference, the science is unchanging.
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Sigh. I always fall for this word trap. You start by saying we’re killing people, then when I say science does back it up, you say I’m talking about cells.
Yes: the cells are killed.
No: a person has not died (we are currently talking about first trimester, just for context).
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Science says human life begins at conception. Sorry that this is inconvenient:
http://www.epm.org/resources/2010/Mar/8/scientists-attest-life-beginning-conception/
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Why would you feel shame about someone else’s abortion?
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Sorry for the confusion – what I meant was that the women who choose to have abortions shouldn’t feel shame if they are comfortable with their choice. But the author is suggesting that the rest of us should accept & support their decision. I accept it is their decision but if a friend asked me for my opinion about whether she should have an abortion or not I for one would voice my reasons for not supporting the decision to go ahead with one. If she chooses to still have one – again that is her choice. But I will not change my beliefs and nor should I.
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With all due respect, I think you’re being hypercritical.
You think it’s OK to “kill” a fetus sometimes but not all the time?
That “killing” has it’s place in certain circumstances?
That seems so strange and double standard to me. If it’s murder as you put it (and if I agreed with you), there’d be no place for it.
For the record, I’m pro-choice and agree with Idle Dad, that no one’s being killed. And I’m consistent. It’s entirely a woman’s right to choose, not sometimes and under certain circumstances.
You’re argument is inconsistent.
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So much of what Leslie says is so incorrect. For one, most women tell multiple people throughout their lives they had an abortion/s.. I know this as a fact, as so many people who I have sometimes only known for a very short time, have told me they have had an abortion, then told their workplace, then told their work coleagues, then told my friends, my boyfriend, my brothers, etc…. I have never put anyone down at all for having an abortion. I used to often wonder, why so many women, told so many people, multiple times they had an abortion, and wanted to discuss it, even many years later. A friend broke down crying in her late 30′s, (One of the people who I had known for over 10years, who had told, me and everyone I knew multiple times that she had an abortion) She was always very confident about having had an abortion, explaining it away as a necessary thing for her at that time, and how she had no regrets, and no reason to regret, declaring her pro choice stand vocally, almost aggressively….. When she broke down crying this day, she said, that it had haunted her almost daily, having had the abortion, that she had become angrier and angrier over the years, less tolerant of other people, walking on a fake confidence she had built up, in trying to deny the heartbreak, guilt, loss, grief, of the child she aborted. She said she was never really pro choice, but was lured into believing it was an okay thing, at her moment, of unexpected pregnancy. She knew the age her child would be, and the loss and grief continually haunted her, and had mounted up now into a tyrant of grief and pain, of years of trying to suppress this loss….. So I find it so disprectfull to women, so offensive, to brighten up and lighten up abortion, under the word Choice. To promote such a life changing,( often with grave circumstances), decision, without giving women true options, care, information, help, offer of support, counceling, information and facts about the risks, and to deny her the truth about how good her life really can be with a child, even when this child may not have been planned or at the time wanted.. Never have I heard mothers sincerely say and mean it, that they wish they had aborted their born baby or toddler or teenager.
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One person’s experience is not everyone’s experience. Plenty of us are totally OK with having had an abortion. Unless you know, you know, everyone ever, please refrain from making such sweeping statements.
If someone tells people, that’s fine. It’s not something I’d introduce myself with, sure, but I will not feel shame about having had an abortion, and I will do my best to stop anyone else being made to feel like shit for considering or having had one. Their choice is nothing to do with anyone else.
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Well said, Kris.
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I hate to say it, butI have worked with children with severe disibilities and some of the parents do wish they had the option to abort their child. It does happen.
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I’ll start my comment by repeating that I am pro-choice in regard to this issue. However generally when I make a comment about abortion the fact that I am pro-choice is overlooked and I’m accused of everything under the sun because I don’t have a womb or a vagina, I don’t ovulate or menstruate etc etc.
I really don’t care that the author has had an abortion. She can have had a dozen abortions and it is simply none of my business.
The author chooses to make her life my business, or your business for that matter, by revealing a fact that neither you or I NEEDED to know. By making this revelation she may be releasing some of her inner demons or cleansing her soul. Her article will attract support and condemnation. That happens.
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Shame comes from within- I don’t think you can blame anyone else for it. If youdon’t feel comfortable with abortion and have one then you will feel shame as you have broken your moral code.
I don’t think their is a real stigma about abortion- if people are comfortable with it they talk about and are ok. other regret it and feel shame. I have friend in both categories and I think in Australia social perception is not one of shame.
It is up to individuals to decide what moral line they draw- No one can make you regret doing something you know ir right. but if you feel pressured and have doubts and cross you own moral boundrys they yes you will feel shame. That’s it a bad thing but a indicator of who you are and what you believe.
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What I don’t understand is how a woman can have multiple abortions. Surely, after one unexpected pregnancy, the penny would drop that you might be a fertile lass and need to take extra, extra, extra precautions. So, to a previous commenter who had two abortions from a relationship with the same man…how did it happen a second time? Surely once bitten, twice shy? I’ve got a couple of friends who fall pregnant practically from their respective partners’ sneezes (!), and they’re fully aware of the fact. Condoms, pill, IUD, Implanon – you name in, they’ve got it or tried it. And guess what? No accidents, no abortions.
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Wow. So judgmental. Approx. 45% women who have abortions are using some form of birth control. Just so you can climb down from the soapbox.
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No B, if she wants to stand ‘on her soapbox’ then she has every right to.
You’ve fallen for the left mantra of trying to shut up everyone who doesn’t agree with you.
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I still haven’t seen a good reason why my or anyone else’s abortion is anyone else’s business.
And I’d love to know what the problem with with Leslie being (or not) an Emily’s List supporter?
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I am not Emily’s List.
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Thanks for replying, Leslie. It’d be nice if anyone making the claims about Emily’s List would actually explain the problem with Emily’s List and also answer my other question about why anyone’s abortion is anyone else’s business but their own.
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Emily’s List is an organisation that originated in the US and was thereafter established in Australia by several female politicians. It stands for Early Money Is Like Yeast. Basically, the pool their financial resources to financial support pro-abortion politicians into elected positions to ensure policy change around abortion, or to try to ensure laws like those in Victoria stay in place. If you are not aggressively pro-abortion regarding laws, you won’t be supported by Emily’s List. Julia Gillard is a member, many say she is a co-founder of the Australian list.
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My comment from yesterday hasn’t appeared, so I’ll try again.
If the ACL, or other anti-choice groups help bankroll candidates campaigns, is that OK?
Like I said below, I looked up Emily’s List and like what they do and say, so I’m joining.
And STILL not one person has answered my original questions!
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Folks, I’m not part of Emily’s List!
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Hey Kris. I say this with all respect….some Emily’s List devotees can be pretty darn scary.
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Be that as it may, no-one has answered either of my questions.
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Brad is scared because they’re Labor party affiliated.
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What is Emily’s list?
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I looked them up because I knew the name and had an idea of what they do, but wasn’t 100% and still can’t really see the problem with them that they keep being raised in this post. This is what they say about reproductive choice:
We believe women must have control over their own bodies and choices in their lives.
Reproductive Freedom empowers women and men to choose if, when and how to begin the important journey into parenthood, without fear of discrimination, coercion or violence.
I can’t find anything more extreme than that other than stuff written by anti-choice groups.
I’d like to thank everyone for bringing them up, I’ve joined.
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Oh that’s funny! I first heard of Emily’s list on the punch (scary site that it can be) and have too looked it up. I think part of the reason some people get their knickers in a knot is because the PM is a member.
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Thanks Kris:)
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Just looked them up too. They aren’t just pro-choice but also believe in equal rights for women, equal pay, childcare, and diversity in politics. I’m glad I looked them up myself finally because I was getting a pretty biased view of them from some people.
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Yes, I can see why people are so anti them when they stand for things like that, can’t you, Kat? How dare anyone think that women deserve these luxuries!
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I know from previous experience commenting on this site that I have a different view on abortion to most people. I don’t have a major bone to pick with the pro-choice folk and would never shame someone who felt the right choice for them would be to have an abortion, however I do find it a bit hypocritical that many of the same pro-choice commenters on here are also anti-smoking-when-pregnant commentators. So ending a foetus’ life is okay but harming it through smoking isn’t? Both sound less than ideal to me.
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I agree, kitten. I’m pro choice for all the reasons that the vast majority of Australians are, but that doesn’t mean that I have to be pro abortion.
The Emily’s List agenda of abortion on demand til term is waaaayy too far for me. Eight weeks is still an uncomfortable gestation for me, personally, and I openly object to the willful termination of a healthy fetus over 12 weeks.
Early and safe.
And enough of the hypocrisy! If you support abortion and a woman’s sovereignty over her body then it defys belief that you’d dare voice an opinion on what she chooses to do during her pregnancy or how she births her baby.
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I am NOT part of Emily’s List
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The problem is that many foetal abnormalities aren’t detected until after 12 weeks
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Can you show us the Emily’s List statements about this? I can only find anti Emily’s List stuff from anti-choice people regarding this.
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Kitten,
I think that isn’t well thought out reasoning. Why would pro-choice want their children to be born sickly and with a disadvantage in life?
I think first try to understand what they are saying. THey think women should have the option, up to some developmental limit. However that doesn’t mean that they will themselves ever even have an abortion. And when their children are born, they will love them just as much as anyone else. The option for termination as I understand it, is usually for circumstances, not merely as a whim. Not sure if I am putting it well, but even pro-choice would want any child born to be as healthy as possible.
I should point out i am in neither camp – it doesn’t really affect me and I can see arguments on both sides. I mainly dislike the extremists.
But in terms of hypocrisy, I think little can go past the combination of pro-life, and anti gun control – that seems to occur a lot in the states where views are owned by a political party.
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I find it incredibly frustrating and sad that the “shame” of an unwanted pregnancy/abortion is STILL placed on the shoulders of the woman. Where are the men in this equation? Why are they not “shamed” – especially when they are so often involved in the decision. So sad that so many women have to suffer this kind of judgement from others.
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Because that is the way it is. Women are women and men are men.
Each gender has its own advantages and drawbacks.
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Yes, lets just leave everything as it is and not strive to change anything that is unfair. Rude little upstarts we are!
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I would like to know how the author feels about socialist policies such as We demand full support for every woman’s right to choose when, if, and how to have children, including the right to free abortion on demand at any stage of pregnancy, without interference or coercion. Clinics providing abortion services must have the full protection of the law. Abortion is already quite easily available in Australia whilst maintaining moral judgement. I never saw abortion as an issue in Australia. It had me researching and wondering why it is being created into an issue. Just wondering everyone’s stance on abortion at ‘any stage of pregnancy’
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The author advocates strongly for abortion on demand, she is a well known, frequently outspoken and referenced social commentator on the subject
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I have never used the phrase “abortion on demand” and never will. I do support a woman’s right to make her own medical decisions and determine critical questions like if and when she will bear children. That’s called reproductive autonomy or choice and this is what I call it.
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Call it what you will, it’s the same thing ‘prettied up’ with different words designed to be less offensive to the many….in a way the language is misleading when the result is the same
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I’m confused Leslie. My understanding in most of what I’ve heard you say is that you advocate abortion on demand til birth for any reason. Can you clarify if this is the case or whether you support moves to restrict abortion in any way? Given that you are actively seeking supporters, i think i need to know exactly what you are asking me to support. Thank you
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What happened to my question? I think it is legitimate to ask what the writer actually supports. Leslie, do you support a woman’s right to abortion at any time for any reason, or do you support restrictions in any way. If you want the support of women in a cause, I need to know what I am supporting. Thank you
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Admit it anonymous, you will never support Leslie’s movement, you’re just sh*t stirring.
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You couldn’t be more wrong faybian. Two of us have been very interested in the work of advocating for women’s rights, however there seems to be developing a major overstepping of the mark here and we are entitled to know exactly what we are supposed to be supporting. It is your kind of question that evokes concern amongst many of us…. That we are not supposed to question… Just acquiesce… Not much of a feminist ideal is it. And still no answer to our question.
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Have I ever had an abortion? No
Would I have an abortion if I fell pregnant now? Most likely, yes
Do I think abortion should be used sparingly and as a last resort? Yes
Is abortion an important option/choice for women to have available? Hell yes
Quite obviously, I am pro choice. If you don’t agree with them, don’t have one! But don’t judge other people who do- you don’t know what their situation is!
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“77% of anti-abortion leaders are men…none of them will ever get pregnant”.
100% of pro-choicers have already been born, none of them will ever have to fight for their right to live.
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100% of all people who were born, never chose to be born
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Yet I doubt many would say they wished they’d been aborted.
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And it is usually people like you who won’t let me end my life with dignity either.
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I can remember telling my mother at 16 that if I fell pregnant through consensual sex, I would move to Armidale for the duration of the pregnancy and adopt the baby out. (Yep, Armidale. I thought it looked like a safe and lovely town during a family road trip. So random!) I wasn’t even having sex at 16, I just knew.
Abortion would never enter my mind UNLESS the conception circumstances were horrific and/or for medical reasons. So, when I started dating my boyfriend (now husband) at 22, I told him straight up that I could never have an abortion if we had an ‘accident’, and he needed to be aware of that before we became more serious. We never had to face that situation, thankfully.
Don’t think for one second that I am not pro-choice, as I am.
However, this draws me to the author’s comment referring to Tony Abbott (in his Health Minister days) saying Australia’s abortion rate was shameful. The RATE is SHAMEFUL, not abortion itself. Apparently there are 100,000 abortions in Oz every year (and I know that figure may vary if it include curettes from miscarriages), but – gosh – am I the only one who agrees with him?
If abortions are to be safe, available, and RARE…then where is the rare in all of this? Am I in the minority with knowing what my boundaries are/were, even before having sex?
When I told my ‘plan’ to Mum, she thought about it for a while and said while she would be disappointed if it were to have a baby young/unmarried etc, there were so many things in life that would disappoint her more – if I was to lie, steal, cheat and so on.
Maybe my steadfastness on the matter is due to the support and lack of shame from my family should I have needed to go through the more difficult option of continuing with an unplanned pregancy. Other comments have echoed this, too – if there was less shame about going through with a pregnancy within society, then surely it would impact the abortion rate.
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Ok. This is what makes my blood BOIL. The rate of 100,000 a year quoted by Tony Abbott is WRONG. The rate is approx. 45,000 abortions (live foetus expelled), 65,000 abortions (due to miscarriage – death of a foetus before a d&c is performed).
Tony Abbott has never corrected this figure he quoted when health minister. Is there rate too high for my liking? Absolutely. But it is not the figures he quoted.
Makes me furious.
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Can you cite your sources for this? With abortion statistics nor kept in most states, the common consensus on both sides of ideology is at least 75,000 and up to 85,000 surgical terminations. These are NOT miscarriages. This also does not include medical abortion.
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45000 is still shameful as women are having to go through emotional and harrowing experiences. the safe sex messages is failing and it is sad that people have to makes these decisions.
It is not the act that is shameful but the volume does not shed good light on out ability to prevent unwanted pregnancy
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While I agree the figure is too high AmandaRose, almost half of these were by women who were using contraception at the time (the pill/condoms). And while this doesn’t excuse the other 20-30 thousand of them, it does lower the rate vastly from the picture of 100,000.
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The accepted figure nationally for abortions, based on the states that do collect abortion statistics is around 75,000 annually, and this figure is accepted by both sides. Victoria alone has an average of 20,000+ abortions annually in that state, and does collect rigorous statistics. Anything up to 100,000 has also been reasonable accurately estimated, however 75,000 is the conservative end of the estimates, thus is why it is the accepted estimate for both sides of the debate
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How many of these are due to miscarriage though?
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Kat, I can’t seem to reply directly to your question so hopefully you see this. The blog system must only a,low a certain number of replies to the right of the page….
None of them are miscarriages, they are all terminations of pregnancy. In the 3 states that record termination figures, they are recorded separately from every other pregnancy or complication. The cons active estimate is drawn from the extrapolated figures from the states that keep clear records and applied as averages across the country. I’m not 100% sure whether Medicare figures are considered or not, which is where I presume your question regarding miscarriage comes from as D&C procedures receive the same coding as to whether they are as a treatment for miscarriage or a termination of pregnancy. The CCOPPM reports however record terminations specifically, so from the states that report, including Victoria at an average of 20,000+ annual abortions, are exact figures.
Hope that helps answer your question. Let me know if you’d like to read the reports yourself, they are available on the web and am happy to provide a link.
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We want women to be equal, we want women to be autonomous – so why why why do we keep seeing these women with stories about having no choice. How has abortion become the means to women’s freedom, something’s gone astray here.
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What Cate said.
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What Ali Flint said !
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Thank you Leslie, I think the work you are doing is really important. Pledge signed
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If I want to judge, I’ll judge. Who the hell are the left to keep demanding that no-one judge their moral free-for-all agenda??!
If Emily’s List think that the empty symbolism of dancing around a May Pole with flowers in your hair is going to end the stigma of abortion then they’re as mad the rest of the loony left.
Abortion is the termination of human life. I’m pro choice but I’ll NEVER be pro abortion. And I’ll never dance in the street to end the stigma of it.
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I’m sorry that the misinformation about my affiliation with Emily’s List has been allowed to run on this thread so long. I am not a member of Emily’s List I am President of Reproductive Choice Australia.
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It’s ok Leslie, we have some nutters here in Australia who like to make anything that is socially progressive or responsible the fault of Emily’s list.
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Sorry, I am NOT part of Emily’s List
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I had an abortion. My husband left me. It was the right decision for ME. I didn’t cry or feel any loss at the time & 20 years later I don’t feel any differently. No regrets, no sadness. I’m relieved I didn’t become a single parent. It’s just what had to be done for ME. I’m not saying that people shouldn’t become single parents. There are many strong women/men who are amazing single parents, but it wasn’t for ME. Do people who know me know? No, it’s no ones business but mine.
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What a hard decision it would be – I am totally pro choice and tend to think I would have an abortion if I got pregnant now. I would hate to have to go through that though… just the other day I took the morning after pill as a precaution because I wasn’t sure if my pill was 100% effective.
I don’t think another human has the right to judge people for their choices.
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At 43 and with three teenagers boys, I found myself pregnant. Putting this in capitals does not go anywhere close to telling you how much I DIDN’T WANT TO BE PREGNANT!
You know how much you desperately want a baby? Well, when you are done, you are DONE and that desperation is felt at the other extreme.
Believe me, I know what it’s like to not want a baby. BIGTIME.
After weeks of wrestling with the idea of abortion i realised that my own convenience was absolutely no excuse to terminate. Because it was a living baby, because I couldn’t live with the knowledge that I’d killed a living human being. I didn’t love it. I detested every day of being pregnant and dreaded the birth and having to care for a baby, then toddler … and eventually, another teenager.
It was possibly the hardest job I have ever undertaken. I didn’t want it. I didn’t want to make the sacrifice involved in raising another child. Neither did my husband, so he just bailed and left me with the lot. No financial help, no alternative weekends, nothing.
Now, with my boys in their 20s and early 30s and living independent lives, my divine daughter is in the other room laughing with her friends.
This fetus, whom I didn’t love or want, has turned out to be the most precious gift in the universe. I have sacrificed so much of my life for her but she has repaid it in spades.
No-one can tell be that the universe didn’t intend for her to be born. As every baby is, she is part of the great mystery of life and I’m not going to argue with that.
If you have an abortion for convenience, or because you can’t be bothered stepping up to the plate as generations of women have done since time immemorial, then shame is the very least you should feel.
This sense of entitlement and self above all else has to stop somewhere. There is a line in the sand and that line is the vicious attacks of the progressive left on anyone who dares question their right to do whatever the bloody hell they like.
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Over 50% of women who have abortions are mothers; you are not alone, by a long shot. So many myths surround abortion – myths that only continue because stigma and shame equal silence!
And very few women abort for convenience but rather for considered reasons like the ones you have outlined, so really, this doesn’t need to factor into the bigger debate. And yet, anti-choicers perpetuate the myth that women are hate filled and irrationally aborting.
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I am not fully pro-choice purely based on the fact that through my life I have met SO many women who have aborted based on convenience. They were in their teens (at my school!) and in their 20s and from supportive families that I knew. Some pregnancies were genuine accidents but many others were just a result of lazy and or absent use of contraceptives with no thought to dealing with the consequences later. No-one openly judged them, but inside I found it really sad. One of them is now a good friend of mine who has regretted it ever since.
I think that motto of available, safe and RARE is good… but women who are participating in consenting sex also need to take precautions if they don’t want to get pregnant (multiple precautions even!) and be willing to accept that even so, nothing is 100% guaranteed.
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Thanks for sharing your lovely story. You are a brave woman, bravo…
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You are exactly what this article was about. Your condescending attitude of judging women who choose to have abortions as some kind of laziness – or worse traitors to woman kind.
Let’s get this straight – missing a bus is an inconvenience – choosing to have an abortion is a major life decison.
You have belittled all those women who have exercised their legal and moral right by saying you are better than them because you made a different choice.
Your holier than thou attitude is way over the top
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No Quokka she gave an opinion that is different from yours – which she is entitled to. She gave her experience of a situation she was in and what she believes.
Just because she does not share your opinion does not make it wrong or holier and it sure as hell was not over the top – just different!
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No Sigh. She stated That if you chose not to step up to the plate of having an unwanted child then you should feel more than shame. That you are letting down women since time immemorial!
That is WAY over the top. You can’t even see the top from the ivory tower she is standing on.
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No Quokka, her comment is a perfect counter argument to an Emily’s List article.
Heartwarming, beautiful and something that all young women should read before making a decision that could rob them of so much.
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I am NOT part of Emily’s List and this article has nothing to do with Emily’s List. I am President of Reproductive Choice Australia. I’m sorry this misinformation, provided by an early contributor to this thread, has been allowed to stand for so long.
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I agree Quokka. Not a very nice attitude towards other people’s circumstances at all.
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Thank you for sharing your experience.
To extrapolate and elaborate on your last point:
People say “live your life how you want but don’t tell me how to live mine”, refusing other people’s morality being “imposed” on them.
Well I think there needs to be a big wake-up call. There are laws on all sorts of moral issues (murder, stealing etc.). If I didn’t agree with them I’d still be forced to abide by those rules.
Those who oppose abortion (like myself) believe it is morally wrong. Therefore we should all live under those rules.
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Did you just say that you think that everyone should live by the rules you judge to be moral rather than lawful?
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Hi Quokka. It may have come across like that (poor wording on my behalf)…but what I meant to say was that abortion is morally wrong and the law should reflect that (just like it does on other issues such as murder and stealing. Unless you deem theft for example not to be a moral issue…then we have another discussion on our hands).
You can dispute whether it is morally wrong or not (it is, by the way, and I am happy to engage in a discussion of why), but I’m explaining why people who oppose abortion believe everyone should live under a law that opposes it.
I am not saying “I think it’s morally wrong and therefore you must all obey”. There isn’t much logic in the last statement. But there’s plenty in opposing the practice abortion.
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But that is exactly what you’re saying, mags. You find it wrong, so everyone should live under laws saying that.
Pro-choice people believe it to be morally wrong to force ideology on people who don’t share that ideology. Why is your ideology better than mine?
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Erm… I wonder, how were laws chosen in the first instance?
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I adore your comment and story.
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Maddiesmum, your post just made me cry and I think you are fanfreakintastic.
Thank you.
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So a woman making a different decision to you is by your reasoning letting down all of woman kind by “not stepping up to the plate” – that is so very condescending. Wow .
Let’s be very clear. Missing a bus is an inconvenience. Missing a period can lead a woman to to make the most traumatic and powerful decision in her life.
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No Quokka. They’re not ‘letting down all women’ but they may very well be letting themselves down.
We live in Australa, not an African village, not in an Islamic country.
We are so blessed that we have a choice.
You choose what you want to do.
I choose what I want to do.
We are adult, educated, free women. We don’t need to hold hands and go to the ladies as a pack. And we don’t need Emily’s List to organise a flash dance to celebrate the liberating freedom of abortion.
We get it.
If you re-read Maddiesmum’s comment, I think it’s clear that she considered abortion but decided, very bravely, to continue. She faced it and chose not to do it.
Lets be very clear … she made a very traumatic and powerful decision. Just because it’s different to the one you made doesn’t give you the right to call her condescending.
The discussion she made has a very real physical and emotional impact on her life every single minute of the day.
As a mother of adult children, I can absolutely relate to the horror of having to go through it all again. It made me realise that if I had to do it, I could.
We are all a lot stronger than we realize and some things are worth the sacrifice.
Your opinion has no more validity than hers.
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I am not part of Emily’s List and the Flashmob is NOT being organised by them. It is being organised by Reproductive Choice Australia, which is a non-partisan volunteer group.
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When I was 17, I became pregnant. My older boyfriend at the time responded by dumping me at a clinic and refusing to pick me up until I had ‘got rid of it’. It was the worst experience of my life.
Three years later, I became pregnant to the same man, and this time had an abortion of my own volition – and got the hell out of there.
I find it interesting that I still mourn for the first baby, I remember the time of year they would have been born, I think about milestones missed.
But when I think about the termination I had at 20, the only feelings I have are a sense of relief, of freedom. Like I had escaped with my life.
I have two children now to the most loving man I have ever known. While I don’t want any more children, if I became pregnant again I would in all likelihood have the child. But then, it doesn’t feel like a trap or that I am sacrificing something now, having my children just fit. And we are not financially secure, I am not finished university yet and we struggle – we knew this going in – but emotionally we were ready.
This is such a sensitive issue, and there are so many stories, feelings and situations that surround each woman that makes this decision. I just can’t justify taking away a woman’s right to choose. She may regret it forever, she may take it in her stride and keep moving forward. But that is each woman’s choice to make, her consequence to live with.
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I query the choice of dancing as our sign of support. Dancing for me is an act of joy or celebration. There is nothing about abortion that is joyous or celebratory. While I agree the shame should be lifted I think it should always remain a grave decision and one that is tinged with regret. Not shame and not regret that you have had an abortion – but certainly regret that you had to in the first place.
Wouldn’t a sit in or march have been a more appropriate demonstration given the subject matter.
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Emily’s List, says it all, I’m afraid. Their reason for being is to rejoice in abortion to term. Happy days.
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How do you actually KNOW, not just THINK, this is Emily’s List?
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Have a look at Leslie’s twitter. All the Emily’s List celebrity/feminist members of McTernan’s spin doctors.
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I am not party of Emily’s List and my Twitter feed has nothing to do with Emily’s List.
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This article reduced me to tears.
http://iregretmyabortion.org.au/
These woman aren’t saying “I had an abortion, so what”
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it’s not a case of so what it’s a case of its no one else’s buisness another words I did this who are you to judge me, who are you to say it was right, wrong or anything else. That’s how I read the article and I agree.
It seems in society it’s so easy to judge. A friend of mine had an abortion and she refuses to apologise or cover it up. Yes it was hard for her but she doesn’t regret it simple as that. I get it!!
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Doesn’t regret it – really?
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I had an abortion and don’t regret it at all. Really.
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No, they’re not. I didn’t say the same about mine, either. That is not to say that each woman who has been there had her own personal feelings, and each woman’s are just as real and valid as the next, no matter what they are.
So what’s your point?
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My point is that the tone of the article reduces having an abortion to farting in a public place.
I agree that women who have had an abortion should not be judged. They deserve care and compassion.This is different to turning a life changing event into something trivial.
I don’t think it matters whether you’re pro-life or pro-choice – I honestly don’t think many people want to see the day where having an abortion becomes so common place that no one cares.
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But according to the pro-choice movement, each woman’s experience is not just as “real and valid” as the next. They have made it their mission to silence the women who have had a negative abortion experience. The only misinformation comes from the pro-choice side.
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Pretty sure it wasn’t the pro choice side that lied about abortion increasing the risk of breast cancer.
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The interesting thing about choice is that it is personal. We make choices every single day that have an impact on how we go about our lives.
Having choice with accurate and objective information allows us to assess all of our options and make the decision that is right for us as an individual. It is no one else’s business why we make those choices or how we came to make that decision. That we have made a decision is the important thing.
I am now 38 and have been contracepted up to the eyeballs since I was 14. Why? None of your business.
Have I had an abortion? None of your business.
Would I have an abortion if it was the right thing for me to do? Yes I would.
The three long-term relationships I have had were toxic. it would have been selfish of me to have a child in those circumstances because the father would have been poisonous to a child and quite likely abusive. I would like to give a child a better life than that.
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This perfectly illustrates why abortion should be a woman’s independent, non-stigmatised, unashamed choice – because every situation is different, which means choice is required!
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I’m all for pro choice but I hope we never see a time when the sanctity of human life is not questioned.
If you are considering abortion, for whatever reason, you are morally obliged to weigh your options in an unselfish, thoughtful way.
No woman who has seen an ultrasound of a fetus can deny that it is a human baby, deserving of its mother’s protection, no matter the sacrifice required.
Nobody wants abortion outlawed and a return to the inevitable suffering and deaths. Nobody wants a return to infanticide. But most people will never be so devoid of humanity and spiritualism that abortion will sit easily with them.
We are right to stigmatise it. A society that doesnt is a society that has lost its soul.
I’m sorry, but the Progressives are starting to go too far for me.
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Have you asked every woman that? Because I’m a woman and I disgaree.
Equating compassion, morality and humanity with stigma is inaccurate. Assuming that women who decide to abort somehow deserve to be isolated, judged and made to feel guilty for making decisions about their health is revolting.
And, sadly, some people do want a return to the outlawing of abortion and seem to concede that this will equate to a return to the suffering and deaths – the shame-stokers as Leslie Cannold puts it.
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Yeh, all those casual thoughtless abortions are such a problem.
To suggest that a women will shrug her shoulders and say “meh” when considering abortion is a bit much.
You may choose to stigmitise what they have to go through. I choose not to.
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Quokka, I have heard of women having abortions because the pregnancy will interfere with their holiday plans.
If that’s not a “casual” approach to abortion, then I don’t know what is.
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Wether you’re pro choice or pro life I hate to say it but that hippie looking girl with the branding on her pregnancy is rather sickening
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How was that a flash mob? It was more like a small dance in public.
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That’s what you took from the article?
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Whilst respecting women’s right to choose, I could never have an abortion. I’ve supported a friend through an abortion, and she doesn’t feel any shame, just sadness that she ended up in a situation where she had to go through it. I don’t think anyone should feel ashamed, but we all have a right to privacy. My friend didn’t tell some mutual fiends who are religious (not ashamed, just easier not go there?). Likewise, other friends were struggling to conceive, and it seemed cruel to tell them. I’ve been through 4 pregnancies and I’m lucky, I live a comfortable life with supportive people around me, I can deal with a lot. Others aren’t so lucky and a baby would be disastrous. I had to support my sisters consideration of a mid term abortion due to severe mental health issues whilst pregnant, whilst inside my mind screamed Nooo! She needed to know we supported her right to choose and would not judge her, love her just as much. She struggled on to have a healthy baby and luckily the mental health issues improved greatly post pregnancy. With the benefit of hindsight she made the best decision, but it could have gone the other way, at some points she wanted to take her own life. So I guess my point is that I think abortion is sad, and even when you know it is the right decision, it’s not done lightly or without sadness, which gets revisited over the years, not because of shame but because its something a women has to make peace with.
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I agree with all of the points you’ve made P.
I would just like to say, as someone who has had an abortion, there *are* people out there who will judge. Unfortunately I have learned that from my own personal experience. It’s very painful when they are people whom you least expect to judge you for it. I found that even more traumatic than the abortion :”(
I don’t regret the abortion (although I was very sad about it), but I regret telling those people. It was a friendship ender :”(
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I did have an abortion.
I don’t talk about it, but my husband knows, and my best friend knows, and I thank the universe for her every day, because she has never judged and she helped wipe away the tears when I grieved afterwards.
I NEVER thought I’d abort, until I was in the situation where I felt I had no choice, then I did it, and every day I think about it.
For me, an abortion has been a rollercoaster, I already had children, and I watch them each day, wondering what my “other baby” would have been like.
I don’t expect pity, and there’s no need for you to hate toward me, I’ve done that enough to myself.
I would never go through with it again, but that’s because my life now is much different to when I made the choice.
So for those who are intolerant or think they’d never do it, you don’t know that, anyone can have a moment in life where we need to do what we thought we would never be able to.
I live with my decision each day, but I am glad at the time I had the right to seek out the option I felt was necessary in a safe, acceptable way. There has to be a choice available to women, and people need to realise that for (most) women, this isn’t a decision they take lightly, and it’s one they’ll carry with them forever.
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Thank you for your story. This is the reality of abortion, so often. I grieve that you couldn’t tell anybody but your husband and your best friend. You should have been able to count on more support than that, because an abortion is not an easy thing to do. However, it is sometimes our only option, and we should NOT be shamed for that. I hope each day is a little easier for you.
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Please just answer me this – at what point does the ‘thing’ in a womans body become something that should be protected? I’m really curious to know.
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Apparently the ‘thing’ becomes something to be protected (and something that had rights) at the point it becomes ‘wanted’.
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I guess you mean morally?
Surely you have your own opinion on that.
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I sure do have my own opinion on it, but I was hoping that Leslie Cannold might be reading and take the time to weigh in on this aspect. I presume after all that she see’s herself as worthy of care, compassion, protection etc., and I presume that she would like that status to prevail until after death and interment. So I was wondering what conditions would precipitate this sort of humane treatment.
If it’s viability, then surely the upper limit is 23+7 weeks gestation, if it’s brain waves, then earlier, but if you want to make it ‘ability to survive without significant care’ then she surely not only supports abortion up until birth, but also the termination of the life of a toddler too, as they still require significant care in every aspect of their life. And if ‘significant care’/dependency is the requirement, then surely ICU’s are irrelevant, as are old age high care facilities.
I guess I want to know, where does this logic lead us? Is it only because you can’t see a pre-born baby that it’s ok to do as you please?
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Apparently, if you want it then it’s a baby and a tragedy if you miscarry at any point. And everyone is allowed to frown on you if you smoke or drink or have a home birth.
If you don’t want it then it’s a bunch of cells and you can do whatever you like with it.
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For me, it’s when it could survive without its mother, but that’s because I believe the rights of the mother trump the rights of the child. Others will have a if different view obviously, which is why we are free to make our own decisions.
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Well it happens over time, see? Allow me to explain.
First trimester: The baby is an embryo. There is no person there. The woman should be free to continue or end the pregnancy as she wishes.
Second trimester: The embryo is rapidly forming. Legally, a line is drawn during this trimester at 20 weeks. Prior to 20 weeks, the woman still has the right to abort for any reason. Why would anyone wait until the second trimester? Because some tests can’t be done until this time.
Past 20 weeks is when the embryo begins to get legal protection. At 25 weeks, or the end of the second trimester, most normal developing babies establish brain waves. This is probably the earliest you could claim ‘anyone’ is there.
In the third trimester (as with any abortion after 20 weeks) the needs of the foetus needs to be balanced with those of the mother. Abortions here are not because the mother ‘doesn’t want a bunch of cells’ as Anonymous cleverly quips below, it’s because an absolute tragedy is occurring.
Late term abortions are always because the mum’s life is in danger. Or the baby will suffer horribly (a friend of mine’s daughter was discovered, late on, that her lungs had developed inside out. The girl would have suffocated as soon as she was born), or a genetic defect that removes all quality of life is discovered.
And this is where the law agrees. In Victoria, a woman can have an abortion up to 20 weeks for any reason, and after 20 weeks with the approval of two medical doctors.
Your callous and smug attitude doesn’t help anyone. You couldn’t have saved my friend’s daughter, you wouldn’t have taken care of my son after I died.
Maybe you prefer little children choke to death as some kind of more respectable ‘death’. I don’t.
Maybe you see suffering as some kind of badge of honour. I cannot see it.
Abortion isn’t a trifling matter you can sit high and mighty on. Abortion is sometimes the best option when all options are bad. Sometimes it is not.
Who can make that decision? Hmmmmm… For those up the back let me tell you: the woman is the best judge. The woman. Not you. Not Anonymous. The woman.
I’m sure you’ll have questions, but I’m off to Taronga zoo in the morning with my four kids, so I might not be able to answer you until tomorrow evening.
Have a great day in the meantime.
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Just a correction to some of your information. Brain waves are detectable at less than 6 weeks gestation. Late term abortions for psychosocial indications outnumber late term abortions for congenital abnormality or maternal health. In Victoria in 2009, there were 410 post 20 week abortions, 214 were for psychosocial reasons.. 10 of these were post 28 weeks. The babies and mothers were healthy.
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No. Electrical impulses may or may not be detected at 6 weeks gestation. That is in no way the same as a “brain wave”
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Elictrical I pulses may or may not be present at 6 weeks. This is NOT a brain wave.
Please don’t try and use science to support your argue,ent and then misrepresent it.
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Psychosocial, so mental health and the ability to interact productively in society?
I don’t think mental illnesses or disorders can be trivialised, just because there is no physical problems doesn’t mean a person is healthy and able to carry a child.
I would have to question the sanity of a woman who was prepared to ‘fake it’ to have a late term abortion for psychosocial reasons – they aren’t pleasant or quick, and can be heartbreaking for couples who make that decision due to other medical issues.
Having said that, if there is no defect or abnormality in the child, and the mother’s life is not in mortal danger, how could a late term abortion possibly be less traumatic than giving birth? I am concerned about an abortion after 28 weeks if the child is health and the woman is not in physical danger,I can’t see any benefit in that to either party and wouldn’t there be a possibility of the baby being able to survive independently after 28 weeks?
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Psychosocial also encompasses all varieties of social issues, such as financial, material, practical needs. All needs that could be met with social solutions, not a surgical one.
If a woman is suffering mental health problems, evidence based research shows she is more likely to suffer adverse mental health effects from an abortion, even at any stage, than if she were to give birth or continue the pregnancy. These risks are increased in the setting of a late term abortion.
As a longstanding health professional in the field of emergency nursing and paramedic one, I can attest to the fact that there is not such thing as a late term abortion to save a mother’s life. Yes, mothers may have physical problems related to pregnancy, but none that will be immediately life threatening. Even if her health is in more danger than the average woman with pregnancy related issues, there are no health benefits to her to have her baby’s life ended and then delivered, rather than delivered by Caesarian section or induced to end the pregnancy sooner, but preserve the life of the viable infant. Sort ion, particularly late term, will often carry more risks to the mother’s health than the latter option, and as mentioned, there is no physical or mental benefit to either party with an abortive option.
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Hey Actually,
Savita’s husband would love to hear about how women don’t have life threatening problems with pregnancy.
Longstanding health professional, eh?
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Yes and as a long term health professional in the field of emergency nursing and paramedic you would know that there can be some severe foetal defects picked up late and maternal emergencies can occur late term. Car crashes for example….
I know they’ll try to save the life of the foetus, but not always.
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‘There is no person there’.
That could very well be the most offensive comment made on this article so far.
I suggest you take yourself to a hospital and say that to the parents of the babies born prematurely. I think you will find there is a damn ‘person’ there!
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You Have To Be Kidding, he said that there is no person there during the first trimester. At this stage there would be no premature birth, it would be a miscarriage. Premature babies are born in the late 2nd and 3rd trimester, and at no point did he say it was not a person at this stage.
Beautifully put An Idle Dad, thankyou for being so eloquent.
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Jemma it is always a person and just because the person who left the comment above does not leave their life history with their comment it does not mean they do not have experience in this as well.
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agree- He was talking about first trimester whe many up to 25% miscarry anyway.
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I suggest you reread Idle Dad’s comment and realise he has personal experience with late term abortion and pull your fundamentalist head in.
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I’d just like to correct some of your ‘facts’ there.
In Victoria, abortion is legal on demand to 24 weeks, not 20 (that being for any reason), and thereafter with approval of 2 doctors, both of whom can be abortionists, and are not both required to independently review the patient.
Regarding late term abortion, also your statement that it happens only in tragic circumstances is also incorrect. In fact, since the late ’90′s, psychosocial reasons for late term abortions have accounted for more than 50% of these abortions, as opposed to the less than 50% that occur for either physical health of the mother or congenital abnormality that can range from anything such as anencephaly right down to cleft palate. All of the figures are available in the annual CCOPPM reports which are available online, and be easily accessed by googling to check for yourself. The latest report released, for the year 2009, showed that of the 410 post 20 week abortions that year, 214 were for psychosocial reasons – physically healthy mother’s and babies – and 10 of that 214 were done post 28 weeks, on undeniably viable babies.
There is no reason those babies need to have been aborted, and there is no evidence for health benefit to the mother that an abortion would be medically indicated, over the option of an induction to end the pregnancy but not end the life of her child.
Just wanting to ensure the information and statistics you are sharing are indeed accurate. It is a myth that most late term abortions occur for medical reasons, and it’s important not to perpetuate such misinformation. indeed, of abortions across all gestational ages, approximately 95% are also for psychosocial reasons.
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I guess that’s why being a googlexpert isn’t such a great thing.
My story is linked below. The abortion was registered as a psychosocial because in NSW, danger to the mother is the legal requirement. But the instigator was a rare genetic deletion.
So just to balance our statement, the babies often have congenital issues but are recorded differently.
A panel of twelve medical experts including midwives, doctors, psychologists, pediatricians, health managers, and genetic scientists had to unanimously agree on the late term abortion. They did.
This is why professionals in the fields with years of dealing with the aftereffects on prenatal decisions, not busybodies online with a google report are best to make these decisions.
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Requirements in Victoria are not the same and this was not a comment on your case. It is information from government department reports which are freely available. The requirement is to record all deaths post 20 weeks and their reasons. The figures are not ‘googled’. They are facts
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I was pointing out that the idea that psychosocial are all mothers and babies are fine is incorrect.
There’s a difference between googling a report and understanding it.
No one performs a late term abortion for the hell of it.
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No google was involved in my information Idle Dad. I work in the field, and have spent many hours poring over the CCOPPM reports. I know what I’m talking about.
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What I take away from IDs experience is that it was officially recorded as psychosocial, but something else entirely (a genetic defect) was what started the process and that was not recorded. It may be easier in Victoria than NSW for a late term abortion to occur, but I would imagine that the reasons are similar. You’re just not seeing the whole story on a govt website, now are you?
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Sorry Faybian, I’m not clear on your last comment / question. What are you talking about government website?
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Legally, when it draws breath independent of its mother, but I guess you already know that. Are you trolling???
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I think this article really misses the point. It address that abortion patients have no one to turn to for counsel for fear of being judged. How about asking the question: Why do these women need counsel? Why are they ashamed of being pregnant and feel the only out is abortion? OMG – I just had a thought – isn’t it the feminist movement that looks down on motherhood? Aren’t they the ones telling us that us women should strive to get a good education (shame on those teenagers getting themselves knocked up) and reach for the stars in the workforce (just hold off another 10 years til you’re 6 figure salary)?
OMG! Another revelation! Isn’t it the feminist movement that’s always trying to remove the ‘safe guards’ surrounding abortion. You know, like parental consent for minors, ‘cooling off’ periods, COUNSELLING?
People claim to be ‘pro-choice’, but the very removal of those above mentioned safeguards actually directs women who are in great need (not to mention emotional turmoil as anyone who had ever been pregnant would testify to) down one path. Abortion.
The article talks about abortion clinic-disguised pro-life movements giving out “a whole bunch of false information about abortion”. What false information are you talking about? The increased risk of placenta previa in subsequent pregnancies? Other pregnancy complications? Um.. the fact that you can die? And I know, you’ll argue that maybe those risks aren’t huge, but what about the 81% increase in mental heath issues associated with women after the procedure? EIGHTY-ONE PERCENT! I’d say that ones pretty high.
So I guess that the only thing I agree with in this article is that we need to offer support to one another, my thought it that maybe it should be done BEFORE the procedure. Prevention is better than a cure or something like that.
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No mother would ever abort her child if she had the level of love and support that all mothers deserve. The fact that 1 in 3 women have an abortion at some point in their life is a terrible incitement on society that should cherish mothers and their babies no matter how difficult their circumstances might be. It is just heartbreaking that any mother would feel that aborting her child is the answer to the problems she may be facing. This article doesn’t quite explain that the policy of the Republican Party was not to ban abortion. The policy was to stop forcing pro-life tax payers (who make up at least 50% of the US people) from having to pay for them. There is a big difference.
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a mothers reason for aborting has NOTHING to do with the love she did or didn’t receive as a child herself!! Secondly whats the issue with tax payer funded abortions when there are tax payer methadone clinics, or tax payers pay for those who choose not to work (when they can). why should tax payers fund exorbitant wages for politicians and all their perks the list could go on. why is it so bad that tax payers fund some abortions coz not all are done on tax payers money some women have no choice put to pay sometimes due to the gestation they have reached. How is it any worse than all the other things tax payers money goes to??
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I don’t believe Daniel wrote anything about the love a woman gets as a child?
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Did you even read the post? Daniel didn’t say anything about abortion as a result of the love one did or didn’t receive as a child…
You are absolutely right about taxes. Why should we pay people to sit at home on their butts while others work? I think we should spend all the money that would go towards abortion to an independent review of that!
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Like this comment a lot. I do believe I’m personally responsible for whether or not I’m pregnant. If I fail to take this responsibility what could possibly justify expecting the state or society to provide me with an abortion, unless my life is threatened, in which circumstances a medical termination has been available for ages. We all know the deal. If we don’t want babies, we keep our legs closed or ensure that we don’t get pregnant. The entire debate exists because people REFUSE to take responsibility for themselves. They want the state to do it for them by providing abortion on demand.
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Wow, what a load of slut-shaming there is in there. Keep your legs closed or have your babies, women!
Sometimes your fertility is out of your control. Birth control is not 100% effective. You could get ill which compromises your contraception’s effectiveness. A condom can break. Vasectomies can fail. You might even be raped.
Or, you might just be a bit silly and do something you regret. Should you be made to pay for that for the rest of your life with a child you don’t want? That’s a little overly punitive, don’t you think? Isn’t the unwanted pregnancy and the abortion enough punishment for you?
And – on the issue of taxpayers funding abortions – do please keep in mind that the cost of unwanted children to the taxpayer is many, many times higher than the cost of an abortion. Also, do please keep in mind that the women having these abortions are taxpayers. Should they not get the benefits of their taxes?
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You’re right Alison, no method of birth control is 100% effective…which is something that all women (and men) need to consider BEFORE they have sex.
Of course people make mistakes, but that doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t have to accept the consequences.
How would you feel if a man impregnated a woman, and she decided to have the baby, but he didn’t feel that he should be “punished” for his mistake so didn’t provide any support to her or the child? Surely making him support this child for the rest of his life would be “overly punitive” as you put it?
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If birth control isn’t 100% reliable, don’t do it. There is adequate educational material out there so that you can EDUCATE yourself in terms of your own body. That means, how you can tell when you are fertile and when you aren’t. The paradigm of fertility cycles is not I repeat not subject to individual differences but is standard across the species we call call woman. Know when you’re fertile and keep your legs closed unless you want a baby. Don’t know what all the fuss is about. I learned these things when I was 13 years old and I’m now nearly 60. Get an education, do please, instead of trying to claim rights when you have not taken on this responsibility of educating yourself about your very own body.
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Ali, do you ride in a car? That is not one hundred per cent safe, so why do it? I found your comment about keeping ones legs shut rather single-minded. Are you a sexual being? I know I am, and I partake in a sexual relationship with my fiance. Given the contraception that is freely available, I use this rather than keeping my legs shut – however it is indeed not 100% safe. I recently found myself pregnant after two forms of contraception failed – what more of an education do you suggest I get? As a university educated woman of 25, I was personally responsible for my actions – it was extremely bad luck that I was in the 1% of women for whom the emergency contraception pill does not work. How is that REFUSING to take responsibility? I didn’t expect the state to fund my termination, I sought private treatment which would have cost me NZ$1000 had I not miscarried the day I was scheduled to have a medical termination. It is views such as yours that have kept me from speaking about this from anyone except my fiance, parents and GP. I don’t expect that you reading about my experience will change your mind, but please be aware that there are exceptions to every rule – I did and continue to take responsibility for my actions (reproductive or otherwise), you cannot expect any more from me bar abstinence.
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Are you kidding Ali flint? Not even tubal ligation or vasectomies are 100% fail safe. So are you proposing that all the married/long term couples who are foolishly relying on this method of contraception (like myself) just shouldn’t have sex? Unless of course they use the billings method, which works ever so well if your cycle isn’t regular or if like me, you probably are getting towards the end of your reproductive life and things are not reliable anymore.
Get a grip.
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“Keep our legs closed or ensure we don’t get pregnant”- No method of contraception is 100% effective and without medicare many women couldn’t afford to have an abortion. Which if they can’t afford an abortion they are probably not in a financial position to be able to provide for a child.The Republican’s policy punishes poor women, and won’t result in less abortions but in women attempting to procure cheaper dangerous backyard varieties.
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keep our legs closed… will be sure to let the rape victims know
And I know of instances where women have become pregnant while using every type of contraception
And as far as cost efficiency goes, an abortion works out a lot cheaper for the state
And I wonder just how society looks at two 16 year old girls who have acted without sufficient thought and are now pregnant – one ‘refuses’ to take responsibility as you suggest and gets an abortion, finishes high school and goes to uni, the other presumably by your definition takes responsibility, has the baby, drops out of high school and spends at least the next 4 – 6 years on sole parent welfare because the boy has shot through…
I am not saying all teen mums end up this way and many are excellent mothers, but they are generally disadvantaged financially, academically and socially
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Last point first: This is the Republican Party’s stance on abortion, from their own platform:
“Faithful to the “self-evident” truths enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children.”
The so-called unborn child’s fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed means there will be no abortion, ever. Their many statements on the question make this abundantly clear. And in case you don’t think they would do anything about it, Romney would have had the opportunity to appoint two Supreme Court Justices in his term. And that would have done something about it.
In reply to your first point: for some women, it does not matter how much love and support they have, they do not want to carry a child and give birth, whether to parent the child themselves, or to give it up for adoption. The changes and discomfort of pregnancy, not to mention the emotional trauma of adoption or the responsiblities of pregnancy, are not every woman’s choice.
FACT: Some women who get pregnant, by whatever means, do not want to be pregnant. There are all kinds of reasons why they do not want to be pregnant, but their reasons are not really material. The decision that they do not want to be pregnant is enough. When you say “ohh if only they had enough love and were cherished”, you belittle that decision and their ability to make it. You are shaming them by telling them they weren’t loved enough, that if they were more cherished they would have made a different, less heartbreaking decision.
There are no heart-affirming decisions when you’re faced with an unwanted pregnancy. NO woman should have a pregnancy forced upon her. And no woman should be shamed or stigmatised for choosing to end an unwanted pregnancy.
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Alison, love, love, loving your comments on this entire post. Thank you for stating so articulately the things I feel and believe.
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I agree. The question shouldn’t be ‘why do these women feel shame about abortion?’ It should be ‘why do these woman feel shame about pregnancy?’ Instead of advocating better counsel for woman who have had an abortion, why not have better counseling before-hand and/or more assistance for young/single/older/disability women? Maybe then there wouldn’t be a need for ‘shame control’ for abortion.
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The policy of many states in the US is to increase the invasiveness of health assessments for women who are seeking abortion. Internal ultrasounds, being given 3D ultrasound pictures of their foetus. These are not actions of governments who, by law, enable women to choose abortion when they are seeking it.
Since being active on this issue I have had many friends come to me with fury at the encounters they had with the “Pro-Life” movement in Australia. They made choices to have abortions because if they didn’t it would kill them. Ectopic pregnancies and still born babies are not something that makes women happy and healthy either.
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Why do we care?
The day we don’t all care, something terrible has happened.
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Recently in Melbourne, I watched 3 women stand on the steps of Parliament House holding up placards that said “Abortion hurt me”. Three women, saying up about how they felt. “Pro-choice’ protesters stood and screamed at them repeatedly “shame, bigots, shame”…. Not much empathy or compassion there. In other words, it’s okay for women to speak up, as long as they only support a certain viewpoint.
And by the reasoning that we are born totally without shame, and it is only the community that makes us feel shame….then how do we decide what is right or wrong? By that logic, any action at all can be justified if you get enough people to agree with you. That’s a poor way to decide …
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First paragraph: some people are mean, so my mean stance is justified. OK.
Second paragraph: if we didn’t have shame we wouldn’t know what right or wrong is. Because logic and discussion and feelings and well-being aren’t enough to guide those discussions.
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No, basically, those things are not always enough.
The thing is that we all ‘feel’ differently over even small things, so how can we possibly agree over big things, like taking the life of a defenceless child. Our individual logic will lead us to different conclusions, because we will each prefer different options, and CLEARLY we each see wellbeing very differently (see: ‘Feelings’ above).
The second we differ on one point in any of the those areas, discussion is pointless because we will each lead to a different conclusion.
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You’re missing the point. We don’t have to agree. Our individual logic will lead us to different conclusions, yes. And that is fine. Because you’re making a decision about your body, and I’m making a decision about mine.
All I’m asking is that you don’t shame me for my decision, and I won’t shame you for yours.
See? So easy. Live and let live. Do unto others, all that kind of stuff.
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Right, sure, ‘do unto others’ etc, so when you’re weak and vulnerable, relying on someone else for all of your very most basic needs, I’ll apply the same logic shall I? And if you’re getting in the way of my life I’ll deal with you as I see fit? Mhmmm.
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And I remember biking down a road that had protestors on both sides with Pro-Life placards, some of whom were chanting. I was about 20, I wasn’t even sexually active yet but I found this truly intimidating. Some of the looks directed my way were full of hatred. And all I was doing was biking to the Uni to study.
Having said that I also have met one pro-life person who was actually prepared to put her money where her mouth was and actually support a young woman while pregnant and even take her into her home. I had no doubt that she was quite sincere. But she is very much the minority.
I have met young women who have fallen pregnant at 13 with no parental figures around, effectively couch surfing between friends and distant relatives. I have met women who had to opt for a termination due to an abnormality incompatible with life. I have met women who already have children and are struggling to raise those who find themselves pregnant yet again despite extreme efforts at contraception.
I myself successfully used hormonal contraception for 5 years, made the decision with my partner to cease the pill and try for a pregnancy to learn that my daughter had beaten me to it by about a week. And my third child is the result of 2 failed forms of contraception both used accurately.
And remember that the biggest cause of maternal death in the perinatal period [pregnancy and the first year] is suicide.
No woman wants to have to make a decision regarding terminating a pregnancy. But sometimes that decision has to be made.
And just for good measure, here’s a Republican male politician with a much more considered view of abortion http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/29/opinion/frum-abortion-reality/index.html
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A GREAT article. It’s funny how I’m fine to discuss my wife’s late term abortion online, but we all use euphemisms when discussing it in real life.
I once picked straight away when a now close very friend said they’d miscarriage from a genetic defect and I said “Yeah, that’s what we told our Grandparents we had too”. And we both knew.
Of course, that led to many discussions about our experiences (and eventually to my story published by the woman organising the end-the-stigma flash mob in Sydney and then again on this here website).
Great article.
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Can you link to the story? I must have missed it.
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Sure. The anon heroes will hate, but luckily their opinions don’t matter to me.
http://www.mamamia.com.au/news/one-familys-impossible-choice/
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Thank you thank you thank you for sharing that story. Just thank you.
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the real heroes will love you idle dad. thanks for sharing xx
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I had an abortion at 14 and I’m not ashamed. It was the right thing to do, babies can’t raise babies. I had been having safe sex and was pretty confused as to how it happened. I’m proud of my decision and proud to live in a country that gives me a choice.
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Sorry i don’t agree with you, Having sex is a big responsibility you should not have been engaging in sexual intercourse at your age in the first place, two wrongs don’t make a right, if you felt you couldn’t raise a baby, well then, you could have put your baby up for adoption, you had an abortion to clean up your mess, sorry but in my opinion it was the wrong thing to do, you may not feel it now, but you most probably will later on…
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No. Samantha has already told us that it was the right thing to do for her. Your opinion that it was wrong is not relevant to her or anyone else for that matter.
Also, she will not likely feel it was the wrong thing to do later on.
Be honest, YOU want her to feel it was wrong.
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Have the baby at 14? Really?
What a field day for myopic, over moralistic busy-bodies like yourself! You could have then talked about how disgusting it was for such a young girl to be pregnant. You could have tut-tutted about her parents and how they could have let this happen.
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Wow. My mother told me if you can’t say anything nice, then don’t so anything at all. So I won’t use the anonymous nature of the internet to say what I really think about your comment. Telling a person who you’ve never laid eyes and don’t know from a bar of soap that their decision was wrong is all kinds of wrongs in itself. You don’t know other people’s circumstances. Whether you’re prolife or prochoice shouldn’t come into it. People make the choices that suit them best and is has nothing to do you!
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How dare you comment on the decisions this woman has made. To suggest she should not have chosen to have contracepted sex when she felt ready for risk of pregnancy is so wholly not your place I don’t even know how to tell you to take your moral off her uterus.
It is an anti-choice lie – a blatant lie – that most women tend to feel regret. The majority of women who struggle post-abortion do so because they feel shamed by sentiment like yours.
Before it’s suggested, I am not saying some do, and that those who do are lesser or weak for we all experience life differently, but most do not.
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Let’s take shame a little further. I’m sure many abortions come about not necessarily because they are wanted abortions, but because the woman feels much shame from her community because she is pregnant. Critical parents, abusive partner, nasty friends – isn’t it easier to go through life without others knowing you were once pregnant, than to be ridiculed simply because you are having a baby? Whatever a woman’s circumstance, we have to remove ALL of the shame that can come with pregnancy, not just the abortion part.
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I have faced abortion decisions twice, 25 years apart. And twice I faced them on my own. I made the decision, gathered the info, spoke to my doctors and was an adult about it, not a whining, attention seeking teenager!
The day there isn’t a ‘stigma’ is the day we can kiss our decent, humanitarian society goodbye. Celebrating abortion as a progressive trophy is a diabolical wank.
Demanding that the entire world rejoice about abortion and gay marriage is embarrassingly juvenile. The adult world is actually laughing at your immaturity.
We are not robots. We all come to our decisions and views from different places and we are each entitled to our opinion. Yours is NOT more valid than mine. You are Not right because you deem yourself to be through nothing more than arrogance.
I know abortion. There is a stigma and I pray there always is.
Pro-choice means safe, affordable and rare. It does not mean that anyone who is uncomfortable about it should be vilified and ridiculed and it doesn’t mean that I’m obliged to ‘like’ any abortion updates from the social media set who fist pump their sisterly solidarity in the most ridiculous, vacuous fashion.
Did I abort? None of your business.
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You’re absolutely right. Pro-choice doesn’t mean that you’re obliged to like abortion, or even to choose it. It does mean that you should have the right to make that decision without any influence. And that influence includes shaming if you make the choice society deems as wrong, as stigmatising.
Pro-choice also means you should have access to safe facilities to follow your reproductive choices. This means good medical care and your choice of whether to give birth at home or at a hospital. It means truthful information about the pros and cons of the pill, condoms, IUD and yes, abortion. Without shaming you about your home birth or your abortion or your early sterilisation because you don’t want children at all.
We are dancing to support the end of the stigma around abortion, to make this easier. Not to make it more common, not to celebrate our abortions, but to get people like you talking about it.
You don’t need to tell people whether or not you had an abortion. But, if you have, or if you’ve needed to get that information, wouldn’t it be just amazing to be able to access it without being scared that your friends, your family, your doctor would shame you for asking?
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Brilliant.
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Aaah but in NSW and I believe other states we have had the choice to birth at home taken away from us, by….you guessed it male politicians. Who are they to say I can’t have a safe birth at home accompanied by a midwife ???. My body, my baby, my choice, yes???
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I totally agree that people are not more right through nothing more than arrogance.
That’s why this article contains many, many arguments to support the viewpoint put forth.
Perhaps if you addressed them?..
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I wanted to keep clicking the like button for this one as it sums up my feeling exactly.
I don’t want to remove abortion as an option for women, additionally, I don’t want it to be viewed as anything other than a last resort, not another form of birth control.
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Who the hell has sex and thinks ‘don’t worry about contraception, if I get pregnant, I’ll have an abortion’?! Abortion is costly and it’s traumatic. I am so sick of ignorant anti-choice people asserting that if we end abortion SHAME, that all of a sudden abortion will be used as a ‘contraceptive’. It astounds me that such ridiculous arguments are thrown up to police women’s bodies and choices.
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Do you actually know anybody, ever, who has used abortion as a contraceptive except in the last resort? In Australia, where birth control is available at Woolworths?
Abortion is painful, costly, disruptive, and not at all fun. Why would anybody use that when they can use regular birth control, which has many choices and is cheap, easily available and so simple?
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I know it’s a common thought, but I hate the “I’m pro-choice, but abortion should only be a last resort, not as a method of birth control” line. It’s redundant. By its very definition, abortion is both a last resort AND a method of birth control. Contraceptives fail, resulting in an unwanted pregnancy. For some, abortion is the ONLY option. And it controls when a person does or does not give birth.
To say that abortion should only be used as a last resort does imply that it is something that is inherently shameful, something that should be secretive, unspoken.
In my opinion, I’d much rather remove any and all stigma around what I do or don’t do to my body. If, as a single woman, I want to get pregnant and become a sole parent, or if I decide to have an abortion, for ANY reason, I should not be shamed. There is nothing shameful about either of those decisions, yet one would be easier to discuss (and not just for the obvious physical reasons).
Thank you, Leslie, for helping to remove the stigma.
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It’s a false dichotomy that abortion access will lead to abortion-as-contraception. Abortion is most often the RESULT of failed contraception (bpas, 2012 and a raft of other sources)
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What a contradictory comment; you want your abortion to be no one else’s business, and yet believe in it remaining stigmatised? You’re right that it is none of anyone else’s business – that’s the whole point of ending stigma. Stigma and shaming occur when anti-choicers feel the right to judgementally comment on women’s decisions. The whole point of this campaign is to let women think, feel and decide for themselves without the impact of anyone else’s uninvited opinion.
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Sk – this is an excellent comment.
I wish I could get my comments on any topic to come out the way you get your point across.
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A beautifully thought out piece about how important it is to support women in their choices.
As history has well and truly demonstrated, women will make the choice regardless of its legality. We have every right to choose what happens to our bodies, and to our lives.
Women keep quiet about so many things in relation to our reproductive systems. Miscarriage. Abortion. Illness. Almost 1 in 5 women in Australia is thought to have PCOS, yet before I was diagnosed not one of my friends had ever even mentioned it. Now I’m doing my best to share to help bring them out of the woodwork. Miscarriage rates are even higher than that, and the same thing… So few women share those stories. I think it’s so important that we support women to share these stories and stop the stigma around our reproductive systems and what happens to them, whether we decide or not!
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Brilliant, Leslie. We need to be able to talk about this without fear of being outcast, in much the same way as we can talk about other medical issues. It’s important. I’ll be dancing on Nov 18th, I really hope some of the other MMers will join in!
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I look forward to seeing you there!
It is a subject close to my heart and I will be dancing for myself, my friends and my Mother who spoke of her own abortion with me only in the past 6 months. It was many years before I was born and a decision she made when she was very young.
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It’s certainly been interesting reading all these comments. I have learned that people provide and others repeat false information readily (I am NOT Emily’s List, but President of the non-partisan grass roots group Reproductive Choice Australia). I have also been confirmed in Reproductive Choice Australia’s view that abortion is still highly stigmatised. To me, it’s amazing that people continue to feel comfortable saying about abortion “it’s wrong” without adding for who.
If one had to actually say “I think it’s wrong for you,” perhaps the arrogance of that position would be made more apparent. Of course one is entitled to have one’s opinion about moral decisions in one’s own life, but just as obviously their moral views carry little weight with regard to moral decisions that others who they don’t even know must face. I hope to see those of you who get this at the Flashmob in Sydney on Sunday Nov 18. That’s this year, 2012, but despite this – and as some of the comments suggest, we still have work to do.
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